News

Microsoft Planning to Certify Half a Million in China

China is a potentially huge market for the IT industry. And, of course, Microsoft would never miss out on an opportunity like that.

China is a potentially huge market for the IT industry. And, of course, Microsoft would never miss out on an opportunity like that.

To that end, the software giant plans on training—and certifying—about half a million Chinese people over the next five years.

It’s an initiative driven by the Chinese Ministry of Education, according to Lutz Ziob, general manager for training and certification at Microsoft. During a wide-ranging interview with MCP Magazine, Ziob said the company wants foreign governments to “look at Microsoft and say, ‘How can you help us bring up our workforce to where it can compete with the world?’”

The students will be trained at local polytechnic schools, using curricula co-designed by Microsoft and China. Certification achievement will be a required part of the program, Ziob said. Redmond is working with the Chinese company ATA to develop testing materials. The paths will be similar to current training programs for certifications like the Microsoft Certified Application Developer (MCAD) and Microsoft Certified System Administrator (MCSA).

Ziob said that Microsoft, like any other company, has to compete in the global marketplace. He emphasized that the program’s purpose isn’t to develop a new, cheap pool of labor in order to move more jobs offshore. He does believe that more offshore outsourcing is inevitable, however. “The development we’re seeing around the globe will happen with or without Microsoft,” he said. “We’re a part of it. That development [in China] will happen, because the Chinese government will make it happen.”

In other matters, responding to a recent series of news stories on MCPMag.com that exposed the allegedly illegal and unethical business practices of a Certified Technical Education Center (CTEC) in Florida, Ziob said he “doesn’t believe we have an ethical agreement with companies.”

The CTEC agreement a company must sign to be approved by Microsoft, Ziob said, “doesn’t regulate how they behave as an organization. If things are going astray, on a one-by-one basis, we’d clearly look at this. If they abuse and mistreat our agreement, we will, and have in the past, taken steps.”

On the other hand, Ziob continued, “Microsoft can’t be the employee morale and treatment police” for the approximately 1,500 training companies with which it has agreements.

Turning to the newly created Microsoft Skills Assessment initiative, Ziob said he’s excited about the free program that analyzes a test-taker’s areas of strength and weaknesses and designs a training course to get IT skills up to par. (Check it out at http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/assessment/)

The 30-question assessments aren’t certification-preparation tests, Ziob stressed. “The assessments check readiness [to implement and administer Microsoft technologies]. We have to make sure the message is right,” and that a clear distinction is made between these assessment tests and a standard diagnostic exam, Ziob said.

Ziob also touched on the topic of braindumps. He believes Microsoft is making headway in protecting the integrity of its exams by shutting down Web sites that post exact questions and answers to its tests, although it doesn’t usually make its efforts public.

“What motivates us mostly is protecting our intellectual property. Publicizing could easily be [seen as] bragging. We’re more successful in the way we go about it. We work very proactively wherever appropriate. We don’t employ investigators” to go after alleged brain-dumpers, Ziob said.

He knows those sites are still out there, though, and said that the fight continues, even if it’s a battle that will never be completely won. “As far as I know, there’s not a silver bullet.”

About the Author

Keith Ward is the editor in chief of Visual Studio Magazine.

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Reader Comments:

Wed, Jun 22, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous

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Hi

Tue, Jun 21, 2005 guy pikpik city

****ing destroy All St.Bernard Software

Sun, Jul 13, 2003 E-Man Anonymous

For those who are smart enough would prepare themselves to reap the benefits out of this move. Microsoft or the training companies would be looking for a lot of trainers. Companies in China would be looking for experienced IT managers and engineers to lead their local teams. Publishing companies and writers would benefit from this move as well. Write or publish books in chinese would reap even bigger benefits. So, don't just sit back and complaint or cursing those who wants to advance.
Strategise.
The only thing I can see here is benefit for both sides.
Piracy happens everywhere the solutions are educate and cooperate.

Tue, Jun 24, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

the cpa's are already allwoing tax returns to get prepared abroad and 25% of price and in bulk.

anything that can be done over the net is going offfshore near shore anyshore but here that is the problem. america must keep american jobs here by rax breaks for companies that dont offshore

Wed, Jun 18, 2003 Zhou Beijing

Why not steal from the West? The West stole from China for hundreds of years. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Why not copy software. Maybe we will stop when the west returns all the treasure it stole from China which sit in private western collections, art galleries, and museums. The West is the true devils and theifs.

Tue, Jun 17, 2003 Anonymous USA

Just another F-U from Microsoft. Now it's our turn. I'm going to look for every oppurtunity to push Linux now. It works better and cheaper so it's really not that hard. Microsoft offers cheap test and training in every country that offers third world wages but expects us to pay full price for a devalued cert... WRONG. And I'm not racist for saying this... Just self centered and greedy. Mine!

MCSE, CCA, CCIE, CNE and many other now useless certs.. next Linux -plus certified.

Thu, Jun 12, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I Support this Action by Microsoft . Microsoft is a Global company , they cant restrict to only US employers or citizens . America wants Open economy from all countries , when they open now American citizen are whinning and crying that only US citizen should get work in all fronts . rememner calif congresswomen suggests to put outdated Wireless on bar with AMerica in IRAQ instead of GSM to promote AMERICAN companies and avoid competition from EU .


FYI : I admire this US Country . but dont underestimate countries like China and INDIA . Do you know full details about these countries . China and INDIA has more than 2 Billion people of earth and willing to do Hard work at all levels not only White collar jobs ..

If outsouring is denied then US Economy will hot rock bottom as EU will compete with better economy ..


PLease urge your Congress men to look into US economy and focus efforts to remove digital divide. Dont waste time in IRAQ and so called terrorists states .

Improve US security and trust your allies and dont impose your vison to other countries like France ..

Last :

Dont blame . try to be competitive . work hard to achive MCSE certs ..

Mon, Jun 9, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I fear anyone that supports Microsoft so openly. Microsoft has released again and again clearly inferior products. When will people wake up and abandon Microsoft. The simplest way to get a product scrapped is by not subscribing to its faults. Yes, ignorance and flash is what drives the market, not a quality. If you want a quality network os you should never consider Microsoft. Microsoft has always been and always will be a sheep in wolves clothing.

Fri, Jun 6, 2003 anonymous Anonymous

If the only thing you know is M$ software, then it wont matter if they certify 15 million of them. You are already in trouble!

Thu, Jun 5, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Out of toilet paper, reach for that worthless MS cert on the wall. MS certs hold no value compared to tried and proven experience. Some of the worst IT techs we hired and later fired had the most spare toilet paper on the wall. So a half a million Chinese get MS certified good for them, wow later they will note it truthly was a waste of time compared to what is learned by actual experience. As software and hardware gets more advanced the less low level and below average tech will be needed. Great mo money saved for the tech's who actually know what they are doing to tighten the IT department's bottom line! It's evolution boys and girls, advance or just shutup and fade away. Don't go away mad, just go away.

Thu, Jun 5, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Again Blaaaah Blaaaah Blaaah Blaaaah more complainers from US, it is too bad that make this country is even worse than anywhere from around the world. Grow up, do something intelligent, put your mind in the right way.
All the complainers especially the racist one really do degrade our country and are really a red necks.

Thu, Jun 5, 2003 Anonymous DallasFt.Wort

Microsoft certifications are no longer credible. It boils down to how cheap can the employer get the I.T. worker for in this new market we (US citzens) are all struggling in. I see another career change coming soon for me!

Thu, Jun 5, 2003 anonymous Anonymous

so cheap of M$ certs....Useless cert. Too many certified people now.

Wed, Jun 4, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I'll stop complaining about outsourcing whenever China, India and other 'cheap labor' countries are saddled with the same burden as the American taxpayer and the companies operate under the same restrictions as ours. American companies have to contend with OSHA, social security, taxes to support education and healthcare for our friendly 'immigrants' from the south, etc. Cut out the overly heavy tax burden on our companies and citizens and only give the outsourcing work to companies that operate to our standards and you'll see a more even playing field.

Tue, Jun 3, 2003 Craig Canada

SO WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT? Since when does ANYONE in China pay for software? 80% piracy out there and you know it!! Furthermore, lets look at the money chich could be made! If I was into selling TV's, China would be a great place to sell product!! Where else could I find NO households with 2 or more sets in it?! Same applies to computers and software... if Bill could enforce the licensing, he'd really roll in the coin!
As for Communist MCSE's - they need love too!!
Craig
MCSE, MCP plus I, MCP

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 People Republic of Micros Anonymous

If it wasn't for certs I'd know nothing even though I already have an IT job, certs give you a reason to keep up to date with technology changes. As for the Chinese move by Microsoft well its not surprising seeing as so many Yankees do nothing but treat Microsoft like an enemy of IT with court cases and whinging. Go global Microsoft so it won't matter what they try to do to you in the USA such as trying to break up the company. You people in the US have forced Microsoft to develope markets globally so you reap what you sow.

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Microsoft is rich enough to make their certification free if they wish to promote their product!!!! Why then need EXAM fees...... TO MAKE CHINESE MORE POOR and FOOL THEM!!!!!

Think!!! Think!!! There are already lots of MCSEs arround the world !!! Why now CHINESE???

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 AskMe Earth

I think better Microsoft Sell Certificates for free, then see how many will try.... I am sure NON!!!!! Don't get fooled by MICROSOFT!!!!!! Stupid Company!!! Depends on other Ideas And always coppying others...... Do they have their OWN!!!!!!

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Cheun Jow China

With the rampant corruption in my country and the fact that morales are non-exsistant...I figure it should take about 2 hours to certify half a million chinese for MCSE. I wonder if microsoft will notice or care that people here will take all 7 MCSE exams in an hour.

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 AskMe Earth

All bull****... microsoft certifications!!! JUst they are making money and cheating poor asian countries and promoting their product for free!!!! Think!!! Think!!! Did Microsoft helped any one of us (MCSEs) to find job or provided one? Then why waste money!!! Becareful next time!!! --- a MCSE Victim

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Definitely sound like a bunch of self-confused, pathetic and lunatic politicians. Farmers will sure have a chance to grow IT and likely to do better than these crappy self-contradicted mindless unthinkable shithouse fugking whiners.

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

It is nice to see that even farmers will have a chance at a career in the technical area.

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 cj st. louis

Yikes! It seems Bill Gates' new plan is to turn the U.S. into a third world country... He's probably just bored with his billions and wants to play god...

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Chris Phoenix

Hey, maybe (just maybe) this is Microsoft's way at getting back at our own goverment. (One good turn deserves another.)

Mon, Jun 2, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

There seems to be a lot of mental illness and boredom in the world. Why don't you go away. mcpmag is important so that it can proliferate the devaluation of getting certified. This is about as important as elementary school graduation.

Sat, May 31, 2003 hello sunday

A perfect example of the side effect due to excessive MS candies. Beware, currys and wonton soups may be the only magic potion(it does come with pepsi or cola flavour) to flush out this disgruntled aftermath

Sat, May 31, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

sooner or later everyone will figure out a cert doesnt mean crap....

Sat, May 31, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

josephine, you're the whiner ... stop bashing america, you self-righteous hypocrite, and throw some support behind American workers, many of whom in the tech sector have fallen on HARD times right now! don't you have a clue?! there's something equally insidious in your post to blaming foreigners - it's called guilt and shame of living in the USA. if Americans are so bad and whiny and so forth, why don't you try a one year sabbatical in China to see if you like it better there? seriously.

Sat, May 31, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Absolutely ridiculous...is there any point to even getting an MCSE anymore?

Sat, May 31, 2003 Anonymous Georgia

Same story differnet day, big business attempts massive attack on IT world domination. Succeeds, then brings entire economy down. Sound familiar?

Sat, May 31, 2003 naveed babar Pakistan

I think it is a great oppertunity for microsoft but plz plz plz u make you'r certification though for new comer if u could do.

Fri, May 30, 2003 josephine bradley Atlanta

Reading some of these comments I am reminded of the bitching by German athletes in the 50s and 60s who complained that too many blacks were taking over and winning many of the races. As long as there is no competition we Americans are happy and content lot. The moment we face any competition we start whining and bitching and blaming everyone but ourselves.
This is true not just for IT but even at the governmental level. As long as we develop nuclear weapons of mass destruction then that is our right, but the moment someone else developes nuclear weapons, they are terrorist states hell bent upon destroying the world.
We can pollute the world and it is because of development. If others pollute they are violating the kyoto treaty. The brits invaded and colonized half the world and it was thier birth right, but the moment Iraq invaded kuwait, how dare they indulge in such blatant violation of the international law.

To say that we cant compete with the Indians and the chinese because they are willing to work for low wages is not a valid excuse. It is an indication of our own weakness and shortcomings. You dont see any Indians winning any track races ever, do you. But I dont see them complaining that Americans win most of these races because they have athletically conducive genes. They just accept the fact they are not good at it and move on to things that they are good at. And I am sick and tired of hearing that chinese will work for only $500 a month. Well the reason that they work for $500 a month is because that is what it costs to lead a very good middle class life there. And the reason that most of them use pirated copies is because most of these companies try to sell the product at the same price there as they sell it in US, without taking into account the different payscale. There would be rampant piracy in US also if a copy of windows XP is priced at $5000 (ie twice the average monthly salary). How many people in US would afford to shell out 5 grand for a copy of the XP, not many. That is why it is not priced at $5000 but rather at $300. I feel that piracy is completely justified when companies impose arbritary and completely unrealistic pricing models.

So my message is that we must compete at all levels, not just when circumstances favor us. Blaming the CEOs for outsourcing is a very lame thing to do. Why shouldnt the CEOs be concerned about the bottom line. If US labor is costing them $40 an hour with benefits and they can get the same labor elsewhere for $5 an hour then why shouldnt the CEO be free to choose the lower wage labor. CEO has an obligation to the stockholders, not to the county, city, state or country. He is hired for the purpose of bringing in more money for the company. Of all those who are whining here I am wondering how many of them drive a japanese car, wear footwear made in hongkong, clothes stiched in italy, computers motherboards manufactured in malaysia etc

So wake up , smell the cofee and get ready to compete.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I think it is interesting that half the people who've posted here reflexively blame "lazy, racist" American workers, but studies have shown that Americans actually work the hardest out of any people in the industrialized world. So, let's face it, if there's some blame to go around in India and China and others who are getting all these tech positions that pay these people (what in the U.S. at least) is considered chicken feed, then the blame should rest foremost on the greedy and inneffectual governments there. Maybe if the disgusting toads who run countries like Red China opened up the market to more American imports, democratic reforms, and became a democratic republic unstead of a corrupt commie oligarchy, then people in countries like that would get paid closer to the level of Americans and the intercontinental job competition thing wouldn't be so much of a problem. And yes, Microsoft isn't being to loyal to the country that gave people like Gates and Ballmer a chance to become unbelievably wealthy and successful, and that continues to spend untold billions on the Micromonopy of products - the good ole USA!

Fri, May 30, 2003 rob California

I'm a white American, military veteran, IT worker for the past 20 years, and an MSCE in NT 4.0. You whiners make me sick...Americans are so good at leveraging issues to get ahead (e.g. frivolous lawsuits, 'civil rights credit cards') instead of working hard (or smart) to deal with the challenges life puts in your way. Unemployed former IT person? Use your head and deal with it instead of throwing around racist comments that only show your intolerance and ignorance. I am still employed thanks be to God but if I weren't I would see if I could get into something like biotech or nanotech. What about the people you replaced? All those keypunch operators, etc. Time moves on, technology and societies change, so shut up and get on with your miserable lives losers!

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I think it is an interesting idea. I also believe that, if it is abused, Microsoft will simply stop doing it. The MS certification program is much to valuable to jeopardize.

Fri, May 30, 2003 rossh New Zealand

Go MS, & who you can't certify there, we will be starting to do a good job here later this year, with an overseas student hostel already open & students(mostly chinese) starting to arrive around Sept.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Listen up PEOPLE!!! I warned you about things like this years ago. ok it was months ago. Intels built a pentium 4 chip fab in china, ibms got over 1 thousand software engineers in bejing and microsoft opened its code to the chinese govt. Its called multinational incorporation and one world goverment, people have been talking about it for years. some corps have actually said that they relocate to bermuda to renounce association with any country or govt. in other words there's no loyalty to the U.S. or its people. profits and only profits is the holy grail for these companies. the rich will get richer and richer in this mega corp. environment and I doubt that there is anything the people of the U.S. can do about it because all the elected represenatives of the people are financed by these corps in their elections. Good luck to your children and your grandchildren in this environment of one world economic globalism. See you at mcd's, would you like frys with that burger????

Fri, May 30, 2003 anon Anonymous

don't waste time with these certs. MS makes a fortune off cert test, which are now worthless.
I have a BS and NT and 2k certs, jobs are haard to find in TX-OK and now after $4000 on classes, no job for 11 months now.
Get a college degree which last a lifetime not 2 yrs. Find a career field where the education last a lifetime...

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

If you are American in a good paying IT job you will not be there long, unless those of us less fortunate manage to sway the 600 or so people who signed off on H1B visas changes. If you think these are only used for low level IT jobs you need to check the facts.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Microsoft Cerifications are worthless so sell it to all the lazy beggars like the in the world. We do not need Microsoft's Certifications nor do we need Microsoft.
Microsoft Certifications are just like the ISO certifications for business. No one really knows what it means nor does anyone care. Maybe the Chinese can do a proper implimentation of Active Directory.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I think Braindump will never stop. all people in china got msft cert. Even farmers, street cleaners, cooks, drivers, students, babies, beggers, hackers, crackers, phrackers, moms, grandfathers, son, sister, brother, uncle, anut, etc will be MCSE, MCAD, MCDBA, etc. China will be Microsoft certified country. Cool uh! MS cert. WORTHLESS!!!

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Another Opportunity to Offshore costs, Its the new NAFTA with China, next stop latin America

Fri, May 30, 2003 Steve Los Angeles

MickeySoft is ALREADY certifying in English in Mainland China, and they were 3 years ago! I should know, I built part of China Unicom's backbone network for most of 2000 (while I was in Mainland China). There are lots of Cisco Certified and Microsoft Certified engineers in China. This is nothing different than the CCNA courses given to some Highschool students here.

In response to John from SJC, Hey butthead, Nips are Japanese...The proper slang is chinks, however most of them already know what to call you---backwoods inbred brainless caveman, and thats being polite.

Be certified only gets your foot in the door anyhow if you can sell yourself properly BEFORE the meeting. It doesn't matter when you are not in the field and unexperienced (unless its just for the experience alone).

Best of luck to all.

Steve

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I am an American citizen and I say GO CHINA. These people need a chance. All the people who worry are cry baby, someting very common in the US. In the US they have everything to be happy and complain all the time. I am MCSE and think it's a great certification, because of having an MCSE it always got me a job.
Please stop crying and go to work.
Don't see to many chinese homeless in the US most of them are American.

Fri, May 30, 2003 David Washington DC

I am an American citizen and proud of it. I am also the Sr. Systems Engineer for a Fortune 10 company and hold several certs. I seriously doubt that H1B MCSEs will work here since we have an abundance of them locally. I can understand using H1B for some exoteric development but not for MCSE related jobs.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

That's OK, we'll just all switch to Java :)

Fri, May 30, 2003 Eric Golpe Philippines

It is a great and nobleinitiative to attempt to certify as many persons in MSFT technologies, however, the average developer in Southeast Asia or China cannot afford to take the certification exams. They are currently around $70 per exam, which is a months salary in many places, and Chinese employers or schools will be the ones taking the brunt of the Microsoft initiatives. This is the rationale of many developers Imeet as to their use of pirated software and braindump sites, freely available on most Chinese websites. Comments??

Fri, May 30, 2003 Richard Australia

Another comment from a Chinese. Microsoft certifications are easy. Chinese are too good at exams. It has no problem to certify half or one million MCSE, MCSD etc. But it is a pity for Microsoft, this will get already worthless MS certifications even worthless. I guess this is MS's strategy too - develop huge user base. - Richard (MCSE, MCSD, MCDBA)

Fri, May 30, 2003 Richard Australia

I am a Chinese. What are you Americans worrying about? Actually only low level jobs outsourced to China, India and Russia. All critical jobs, advanced technologies stay in US. Do you think the US government is stupid? The powerful Apple G4 was prohibited to be imported into China, including whole lot of technologies. The outsourcing to these countries only give you guys some pressure to do some advanced and innovative work. Then some of you are complaining what? I only think those who are complaining are not hard workers.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Dallas Thunder Shanghai, China

Well, I didn't imply that anyone is justified to do software piracy thing. But for anyone on this planet, survival is always precede development. And you guys please don't worry about half million Microsoft Certifiers, they'll manage their life well in China and being satisfied enough, not gonna take you away from your decent job and life.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Tormentius Vancouver, BC

Well, it will make it tougher but such is life. We'll adapt and those that don't will fall by the wayside. Everybody has a right to learn and advance themselves.

Fri, May 30, 2003 Dallas Thunder Shanghai, China

Those racial comments are really disgust. Those who thought Chinese MCSEs took their jobs are really stupid. No matter how braindump sites helped, the fact of passing MCSE exams in English itself is a awesome work.
With less than US$500//mo salary they did good job as you guys did. Few people in China could afford US$240 a copy of Windows XP Pro. Actually less than 15% of employees in cities get paid higher than US$240. Will you spend a month's salary to buy a very basic & must needed operationg system? $700 for a computer, $240 for a Windows and $240 for a Office, that will be a usable system, it's total $1180, almost two month's salary for a well-paid white collar in big cities of China. But it only cost a quarter of your monthly salary!

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Go China, this is a much needed program and should be welcomed by all. I must say that I don't really like the racist comments that have been posted in response to the article, surely every human on the planet has the right to improve themselves and to be trained to do a better job in order to feed their families just like anyone who lives in any other country.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Hmmmm, interesting thought, communist MCSE's.

But seriously its about time Microsoft went totally global to change the face of computing like never before and become a secure and permanent fixture for decades to come.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Bristol,CT

Microsoft has to do something since they are one of the companies which have brought in the foreign scabs under H1B and L1 visas and are using offshoring to eliminate Americans from the IT work force. No one is getting certified for job retraining in the IT field. Did this anti-American company shoot themseleve in the foot. I cannot wait until AOL OS 12 is released as the latest version of Windows. We are on the way IE may be the browser of choice for AOL since Microsoft gave up against AOL Time Warner. What a deal they got from the states.

I guess too many MCSEs are not buying Microsoft Certification in the US. Latest versions of Microsoft products are cracked and pirated in China and hit the streets before Microsoft's official launches. Stop buying into Microsoft. Start recommending and implimenting Open Office on the desktops. It works great on Windows platforms and can save enough on the IT budget to save your American job.

We Americans are being pushed out of IT lets start pushing back. We are discriminated in the job market in our own country. Write your congressmen and the news media and let them know that companies like Microsoft should no longer enjoy the benefits of being a US company.

Thu, May 29, 2003 james Anonymous

select sum(mcse_rev) from msrevenue where country = 'china'

================
Billion of dollars

Thu, May 29, 2003 Scott USA

The obvious future is...
Our standard of living in the US dropping to equal that of Eastern Europe over the next thirty years.
First there was the exodus of manufacturing, now IT.
Not all our children can be lawyers and doctors, we need to retain some white collar jobs.

Oh well...

Thu, May 29, 2003 Dan Texas

As if India wasn't a big enough problem. Now MS is going to sell out the rest of our IT jobs to China. Those of us with over 10 years invested in supporting MS platforms just got another kick in the teeth. With the software piracy rampant in China, expect a surge of paper certs from testers selling the questions to future H1Bs. If you thought braindumps were a threat to the value of certs now, just wait and see what happens. We should all take a close look at which OEMs are using overseas tech support and let our clients and customers know who NOT to buy from. The IT industry employment situation is bad enough now, this may be the final nail in the coffin for our future. Chairman Bill is so afraid of Linux in China that he has sold out America and the American IT worker.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

American IT workers need to re-train and remember how to pleasantly say "Would you like cheese on that burger?" . American can not hope to compete with foreign talent overseas that can live well on $500 a month, unless you are will to work for minimum wage of $2 per hour with no benefits. In China, as I have in-laws there, most workers have their wages supplement by central government in low cost housing and other benefits. My father in law a senior engineer lives in what is considered high level housing and only has to pay $5 a month in rent, does not need a car, as he can pick up a phone and a car and driver is sent around. He is not exceptional, as most of my in laws in engineering or technology get these perts. The salary is actually only $500 a month but offset with these perts. American business can never complete using American talent and labor with this situation. So my fellow Americans, learn to say "Would like to supersize that drink and fries?".

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

The last three interviews I had for an IT position made it clear they had no interest in reviewing my MS Certs. I got hired based on copies of my annual reviews. I'll have no intention of wasting my time and money on MS Certs as they never have served as an factor in getting a promoting or new employment opportunity. I feel terrible about the $6k I spend on getting the MS certs, a total waste of money!

Thu, May 29, 2003 Mike Texas

I believe that this will further devalue the already weak cert. I also believe that if this trend continues more American jobs will be staffed by foreign workers either here (H1B's) or abroad.

Thu, May 29, 2003 mrobinson52 Florida soon

The problem is that a huge number of the braindump sites come from China. So these folks will have an easy time of certifying, which will further devalue the almost useless MCSE. 7 tests for an entry level cert. Thanks M$!

Thu, May 29, 2003 Rik Australia

Let's get back to the real point -Certification is a good thing. China has a big influence on the Internet. Having somebody there that should know how to set things up properly will help stop some of the problems we get. And you don't need training to write malicious code that brings everything down, say Slammer or I Love You. The real problem is MS certification can be too easy - and I say that having struggled hard to pass my MCSE and an IT degree.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

I'm a patriotic American, and you folks make me sick. If you're going to use a racial slur, at least get it right. And some of you don't even know how to spell... It's no wonder that other countries are taking our jobs. But we got those jobs by innovation and building a better product. And that's how we'll stay on top if we can. If we can't then we don't deserve to be there anyways. Hiding behind a protectionist shield simply proves that you can't hack it.

Thu, May 29, 2003 MCSE 4 Plus I and MCSE 2K Florida

How many MCSE's does Microsoft employ???

I mean they don't seem to require it for employment... Do they?

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Certification isn't the solution. Profesionalization is what is needed. Tough laws that only US licensed developers can write code used in any possible way for any activity in the US. Can you imagine that Bar Association or Amer. Institute of CPA's allowing the work to be done in Asia!?

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Where will US IT be in 5 years? Outsourcing most all dev work to China and India? Why pay 500% more for dev in English?

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

And this is how Microsoft devalued its own certification program. Microsoft will acquire Chinese market, at the cost of loosing the market in other countries. Currently I hold MCSD, MCSD for .NET and MCDBA but I won't put any time andor money on MS certification if MS starts to sell bulk copies of certification.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

get an advanced degree don't waste time and money on worthless certifications

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Off-shoring means: Nobody(overseas) will be able to afford US Services or products. Displaced workers in the USA won't either. Soon these Ceo's and members of the board will be displaced too ;-)

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

MCSE is worth a penny a dozen now.

Thu, May 29, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Why can't Microsoft just hire those already certified from U.S.? US already got too many MCSE's.

Wed, May 28, 2003 Anonymous Anonymous

Go Microsoft........ we love you so much

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