Microsoft Pushes MCSA with Charter Membership

Microsoft to issue special-edition Charter Member MCSA wallet cards to first 5,000 titleholders.

Microsoft will issue special-edition wallet cards embellished with the phrase "Charter Member MCSA" to the first 5,000 candidates who eventually satisfy the requirements of the new Microsoft Certified Systems Administration title. The title is expected to be obtainable around Jan. 22, which is the expected release date of the 70-218, Managing a Windows 2000 Network Environment exam.

The gesture is similar to the one that the company extended to the first 2,000 MCSEs on Windows 2000.

Microsoft will send out the Charter Member MCSA kits to MCSAs in February. For details on the Charter Member MCSA and MCSA requirements, go to

About the Author

Michael Domingo is Editor in Chief of Virtualization Review. He's been an IT writer and editor for so long that he remember typing out news items in WordStar.

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Reader Comments:

Mon, Nov 22, 2004 junaid pakistan

i want membership of microsoft

Tue, Dec 3, 2002 Steve Maguire Roseville CA

With the electives set up as is, one can take the 218 as an elective going toward the MCSE. This does make the MCSA a mid point between the MCP and the MCSE. If one maintains a network, as most do, as compared to designing, the MCSA fits. The fact that most networks are regularly going through growth spurts, the MCSE is valuable to plan the growth. I belive they all have a place. Is the testing a M$ cash cow, absolutly. My gripe is the tests are long on reading comprehension and stamina and short on skills. A 5th grade proof read would not hurt either.

Sun, Mar 3, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

I've looked at and digested a lot of the griping going on concerning the MCSA and MCSE certs. And to all of you grippers, I have a question......... bottom line what looks better in the long run an empty wall with no certs or one with some certs even if they be MCSA or MCSE...........hmmmmmmm. The name of the game is achievement.

Thu, Jan 31, 2002 Eric Lo Hong Kong

I think MCSEs in Hong Kong would rush to get this Chartered certification. However, as there are many candidates in the world to take 70-218 exam, Chartered MCSA may be rare to find in Hong Kong, as Hong Kong MCSEs are too busy to spend extra time to get this certification. (I'm one of Chartered MCSA. I have been MCSE before taking 70-218 exam)

Sat, Jan 26, 2002 pfunk dallas tx

I got my MCSA. And I have MCSE NT40/2K. Great wonderful. Some little butthead with an MCSA is gonna work at some place because he is certified. And I get to clean the mess up after he probably gets fired for not knowing anything he should. Why you ask? Because instead of taking infrastructure he took A+ and Network+ or something like Proxy 2.0. 218 is a cheap version of Network+ and 216. Could of passed that before I took the core four. All you wonderful people who think its great for this new cert better learn one thing. Who hires you? You better hope its an IT manager. If its the HR director, they won't know the difference between and MCSA and MCSE. I've met some who thought a CCNA was a better CNA. As for technical recruiters, they don't have a clue. I had a recruiter for i2 here in Dallas write him a test so he could check his candidates out who said they were an MCSE. He would go through 50 paper MCSE's before he got someone who knew what he was doing. Now you only need A+, Network+, and three braindumps and your ready for the big time. I'm sure he will be calling me soon for another test. If your an MCSE go take the test. Only extra thing I saw was IIS. And it was easy. Who cares about charter memberships. I took it so next time I have to go to another consulting job, I can say "Of course I have a MCSA....easy test like that, of course I got it. But I am a MCSE which means I am better than a MCSA....putz!" By the way. There are some new tests coming out that don't make sense. Try typing the "70-090 microsoft" into google. What the h is this? An Office MCP test. And its an elective for MCSE????? Hey, maybe we should make the MOUS courses MCP electives. Of maybe they will make a new cert for Office. MCOE? Microsoft Certified Office Engineer. So all you people who think, oh great a MCSA...wonderful, get ready for some really stupid garbage. You know that ms needs more money for those lawsuits and Billy's mortage. And all these books and courses are funding that. Hey maybe they should make a better OS. Yeah right. No need to train, print books, or make certifications. Whoa...income reduction. Nah make OS really bad and raise prices and make more certifications. Thats what will happen. This is a cert to try to appease NT4 MCSE's? Thats wonderful. Does this mean that ms can kill the NT4 MCSE on Dec 31, 2002. Hmmmm. Why not? By then the .NET and its wonderful security flaws will be out. The only thing great about working on ms products, is the fact that it will keep me in a job. Always breaks so it always needs someone to fix it. I love talking trash about ms because supposedly when I get my MCT I will have to stop talking bad about them. HA! Am I finished. NO! I think they suck. Now I'm finished.

Mon, Jan 21, 2002 steve FL

Bottom Line is more $$$$$ for M$

Sun, Jan 20, 2002 YourMom Anchorage

Alrighty then Microshaft, when you become the money man, then you can talk....but for now, shut the effin up!!....Dork Fish.

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 Joe Proctor Lexington, KY

MCSA is a great milepost for people with 4 or more exams. When I first looked at MCSE over a year ago, I thought it was strange that 6 exams equalled 1 (MCP is an MCP). MCSA looks better for those climbing their way to MCSE. Screw it if you're already MCSE.

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 Henry Ottawa

Sorry, people. This comment page is a little wonky. Or maybe it's me.
Yeah, it's me.

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 Henry Ottawa

I wish to thank Microsoft for the opportunities their certification has given me. Although this may be just another set of letters behind my name, its also a recognition that I'm willing to learn under any circumstance, even when it is not req

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 Henry Ottawa

I wish to thank Microsoft for the opportunities their certification has given me. Although this may be just another set of letters behind my name, its also a recognition that I'm willing to learn under any circumstance, even when it is not req

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 MOHAMMAD TOHA NY




Thu, Jan 17, 2002 Ed Maryland

Ok, here is my take on this certification mess & why the lack of IT professionals attempting the 200 MCSE. Yes, the original plan discouraged many of us. Microsoft should not have released the 2000 line of products (Server/Pro). They just should have waited for XP series to be finished. But, they had to prevent Novell 5.0 from gaining any kind of foot hold, so out the door it went. Now, we the IT community are faced with back to back releases of similar products, and we are all dazed and confused for now!

Wed, Jan 16, 2002 Percy Yuba City

Yes, I agree with you Hasnuddin! MCSE 2K's should be Grandfathered into the MCSA! Good point! Well made!

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 Hasnuddin Hamdan Malaysia

Ok, let's look at this new MCSA certification objectively, from the perspective of all long suffering Windows 2000 MCSEs (who don't have any charter membership!).

Now, Microsoft itself said that the MCSA certification is "a credential that represents a subset of skills required by the MCSE credential," ie. no design/deployment of network skills. Every objective on the MCSA has been covered by the MCSE certification, there is nothing new to learn. Yet, Microsoft had the audacity to tell those of us already certified as Windows 2000 MCSEs to "consider pursuing the MCSA certification if the credential represents your current responsibilities in systems implementation and management". Meaning that we have to pay and sit for another exam without actually getting anything of value, education-wise.

I would like to demand that all existing Windows 2000 MCSEs be automatically conferred the MCSA title automatically (and be admitted as the Charter Members), simply because WE HAVE COVERED all required certification objectives. Until and unless Microsoft can prove that there is something extra that we can gain from this new certification, then I agree with Terry's course of action.

Mr Bill Gates, what do you say about that?

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 Terry Fox Canada

What the heck is WRONG with you Microsoft????

Have you guys lost your mind? Do we all look so stupid??? Wasn't it bad enough that you lied to ALL of us about the huge salaries we will all get? Yet you turned around and told corporation that you have a huge supply of MCSE's at very low rates, much lower than Unix professionals. All the talk about TCO blah blah blah. Microsoft played a very dirty game and now they are paying the price. No Mr. Bill Gates, you can take my MCSE and put it where the sun doesnt shine. Microsoft claimed that they do not make money out of certification. Well, I still remember my math, M$ make billions of $$$ out of people who failed the exams, not to mention those who passed. Mr. Gates, I will NOT pay you one more penny for any MS certification. I found my future in Unix, thank you very much!!!

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 Percy Yuba City

First in reply to Ellison: Which inexperienced designer is equipped to setup a forest? Paper MCSE or Paper M.S. or Paper Phd. None of them! At least the paper MCSE has read the manual and might have an idea of where to start. Please don't put words in my mouth or put down and discourage people who are trying to started in the industry. We don't need that!

Second: In reply to Renee. As long as your skills extend beyond English into IT you are fine. Anyone working in the field should have communications skills. I recommend a Bachelors or higher. There are managers out there without IT skills that make promises to clients that their staff can not keep and create budgets that are not realistic.

At any rate the MCSE and MCSA are worthwhile pursuits, whether you have 10 years of experience and your are trying to learn best practices or you a new to the field and looking for a way to learn about the technology and enhance your resume. You will have to ignore the hostility of haters along the way!

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 Renee Boston

Percy from Yuba: There isn't anything wrong with English majors as IT managers. This English major also went to electronics school for 18 months, and I have been in the computer industry for about 7 years. In my experience,as a network admin and a former English major, I think my training as a writer has helped me quite a lot. Communication is so important and I see many technically adept people who seem to difficulty in getting their ideas across to others.

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 Renee Boston

Sounds like they are doing the same thing that Novell did years ago with the CNA. The Active Directory was also a Novell invention years ago (NDS). Well, Microsoft has made it to the 90's.

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 BM Massachusetts

Overall, I think the MCSA is a good thing. I am a MCP for NT 4.0 and work with MCSE's for NT and 2000. All of these people are good at what they do, but are they truly system engineers? I don't think so. System Administrator is a great fit for mid-level support personnel.

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 mahmod egypt


Mon, Jan 14, 2002 Larry Ellision Anonymous

Yuba, If you seriously think that any MCSE 2000 can setup a forest, and implement a secure authentication model, your are seriously mis-informed. If an individual is a paper MCSE, it does not mean they are experts on Windows, far from it. I would not let a paper MCSE 2k near a network with over 100 computers. Do you think a paper MCSE 2k, could migrate a 30,000 node NT4 network to AD?? I don't think so. That is the type of skill that comes from experience, and not just any type of computer experience. 3 computers sitting in your home "network" with AD running doesnt qualify as a real environment.

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

I feel some of those who are complaining about MCSA are those who did not pass 70-240(an atrocious totally impratical exam !). Road to W2K is too hard for them and MCSA seems a downgrade. Microsoft should come-up with a releastic upgrade path for NT-MCSE's and move forward.

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 Victor Alfonso New York

I see MCSA as a step in the conquer of MCSE. Is not an easy road so is wise from Microsoft to let the "busy technical people" to have a spot in the road to take a depht breath and look into the closer MCSE Level with new impetu.

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 PJ San Diego

I too would like to see more support for Microsoft Certified Professionals like "microshafted" mentioned. Dont loose site of what this cert is about. It's not a bragging tool for MCSE's to grab onto. It's what will set an MCSE apart from an Administrator. Many people lack the ability to plan an Enterprise but can certainly administer a network. They dont deserve nor should they be an Engineer. Let the MCSA fill the gap and create user accounts and do backups. This Cert is a starting point for Junior personnel. As mentioned previously by someone else, this cert if nothing else fills the 6 test gap from MCP to MCSE. People we need junior admins as well as Senior.

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 Leo Anonymous

I've just completed my MCSE W2K and I'm going to write the extra elective to get my MCSA. I'm not saying MS certification is great, since paper MCSE's exist, but I am saying that obtaining any certification cannot be bad for your career. I know that experience speaks for a lot when it comes to IT, but a certification can give you the oppertuinity to gain even more.

Sun, Jan 13, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

ALLELUYA MCSA. Tired to hire MCSE with no hardware knowkledge. Once one MCSE guy get stuck on a connectivity problem with a laptop. Gess what, the connector was damaged but the guy never check. Was trying upgrading drivers and so on. This kind of thing is really damaging for the title MCSE.

Sun, Jan 13, 2002 Jai Msia

I am now on the way to MCSE2000. I need to complete only 70-216 exam.
After I review the study guide from MS site regarding 07-218, it is also somilar to 70-216 exam. Only different is that it have include IIS topics.
Why can't MS get an optional like people that has passed 216 exam and 215 exam no need to seat for 218 exam
In Msia, the exan will cost us RM305 local currency. Imagine, I've already pay for a lot of money for training materials and exam, I just need this as complementary from MS.
Well anyway, I've already a MCDBA, MCSD and one more paper I gonna be MCSE. Why can't MS have something to recognize people like me, MS extreme fans.
Guys, after completing my certifications, I was suprise that I got a lot of job offer. Not just in M'sia, but overseas like NZ, AUS, UK, CAN, FR and ITA. My pay was just RM1200 when I started to work with my Diploma and without MS certification. I am a top student though at my college which one of the prestige college in M'sia. I score 3.95/4.00. I feel very sad my pay was very low. I browse MS website and interested to go for it certifications. I really save money at least RM350 a month. After 6 month, I started with 210, 215, 217, 219, 228, 229, 175, 176 and 100. I left out 216 exam to get prepare on the area I not really good at, Networking (216). After I got my 3rd MCP, my company increase my pay to RM2500. Quite a lot in M'sia money. After completed my MCDBA, my pay again was change to RM3200. After my MCSD, my pay was increase to RM4000. My boss has promised to increase my pay to RM5000 after I pass my 216 exam and gain MCSE. See my pay was revise 3 times last year. This year I opt for MCSE, MCSA and finally MCT.
Doing MS certification has made my pay increase in less than 2 years. It increase 6 times when I start my job. Now I got a career. Thanks for MS.
When MS say charter Membership, people like me suppose to get that. We have proven records and become a role model to other IT people to proceed with MS certifications and gain higher pay.

Sat, Jan 12, 2002 Daniel Marquardt Sweden

I think the MCSA is a good thing and of course a stepstone for certifications. many Companys have a kind och notice that you have come halfway trough. Some will stop and feel that it is enough to have earnd an MCSA-title and some will go on further.

Sat, Jan 12, 2002 Percy Yuba City

The reason Masters students are not finding jobs is because they have no marketable skills. I know of Masters Programs where you do not touch a computer. They focus on the "Big Picture". It's easy to talk about e-commerce but can you actually setup a forest and e-commerce server, secure it with certificates and IPSec, and provide customer access via a L2TP VPN. That's what the MCSE is all about. Far too many English majors playing IT manager out there.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Paula Dallas

Damn, if this is the MCP site, YIKES. Uncle Bill needs to take some notes.

I came here to look for exam study tools, but guess I hit the Novell site instead...!

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Larry Ellision WA

I think people that are going for their MCSEs, MCSAs, whatever, and dont actually work in the computer industry already, dont be fooled. All those paper cert mills probably filled you with baloney. You'll make 70K US, right off the bat! Ya. right. There are people with Masters in CS, that cannot find a job right now.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Scott Brooks

Quite the collection of comments, I wonder if any one but microsoft realizes that since it is their Operating systems that we are leaning and supporting for bussiness that they are the authority on how well a person must know the information on supporting the same since one bad administrator makes for a lot of bad publicity and very unhappy customers. The MCSA was developed for several reasons least of which was for you or I. Windows 2000 and the MCSE are so widely changed that many people learning the system for the first time didn't get it but may know previous versions well, and since many companies made large investments into these older systems they aren't going to just dump a pile of new cash to go onto the newest flavor without good cause also known as business need!! Microsoft found that many people understood administration but not the systems engineering so this is how we can be identified for what we know and can do. Thanks to Microsoft for recognising that little fact. Good luck to all who wish to excel and for those who wish to complain just get the hell out of the way

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 I am not telling don't even think about it

Like duh!!! so why do we need the MCSA then.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Yuri, MCSE NT4/2000 Santa Fe

I love the way some people complain about everything. The MCSA makes sense to me. Most MCSE's have nothing to do with systems engineering and everthing to do with systems admin.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Percy Yuba City

Newbies, listen to the posts from the old school veterans like Bjorn, Johnathan and Pete. For what it's worth I hold an MCSE NT4. Two exams away from the 2K. 3 Comptia certs a CNE Intranetware, Pilots licence and Bachelors of Science in IT. It's the process, not the paper that is important

What did you expect? Microsoft to send you a check for your signing bonus and directions to your cubie in Redmond. Ha ha ha! That would be like expecting the college you graduated from to hire you! They ask alumni for money! Microsoft owes you nothing. You owe your customers return on their investment and your employers solutions and bang for the buck!

The MCSA describes a job. System Administrator, not Engineer. If the shoe fits wear it!

I have learned plenty during the certification process. I have applied much of what I have learned to real world applications. For example. When to use DHCP vs Static addressing. Group Policy for RIS instalations. Best practices for securing file systems. Why you shouldn't span the WAN with NetWare Replica rings. All of these test questions solved problems at work.

To the Linux people. Life is about what you are not what your aren't. If you want credibilty, provide solutions. The Comptia Linux + cert will finally give us a way to benchmark Linux administrators.

I support performance based exams. However it is not necessary to goto the corporate site. Terminal services or simulations can provide the environment without having the candidate incur the cost related to travel.

At any rate, it is good to see that so many people care about the IT industry. It is important to keep our hearts with us as we transition into the Information Age!

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 brian bay area

Pay attention to what Scott is saying, if Microsoft held tight to the original plan they would have made the 2000 cert strong in the long run. However Microsoft is not interested in the value of you new 2000 mcse's, they are interested in their numbers. A lot of us new that all along and were proved right when Microsoft began watering down the MCSE 2000 title. We called their bluff and WON!

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Kyle Texas

Certifications are not an exact science...They don't accuratley measure the technical skills of an individual. I have been in the IT industry for 14 years and have many Certs, and none of them measure my skill. I think "M" needs to pick up the level of there testing. Any one that can read Braindumps can pass a "M" exam these days!

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 JR Minneapolis

Lots of opinions...

I've been an MCSE since 3.51, and have also held the MCSE2k, +I, MCSD and MCT certs along the way. Nowadays I hire people instead of working on the floors, but I still remember the way up.

The whole MS certification process is beginning to be perceived as a joke by the industry and I understand why. The longest test I took lasted 20 minutes and indicated that I was familiar with the material, but did nothing to show any depth to that knowledge.

I've interviewed 2k MCSE's without any NT or 3.51 time and there IS a difference. That difference is experience.

While the cert may show that you've taken the time to get the cert, even for 'paper' folks, they still don't give you the depth necessary to get the good jobs.

If it's done more like the CCIE, an MMCSE would be a good thing. I have the former, and could probably get the latter. It was a tough road that required experience, but when I listed CCIE on the resume, people instantly knew I had done a lot to get the cert. Not so for the MCSE.

So bottom line: If MS toughens up the MCSE, and uses the MCSA as a challenging mid-level cert then go for it. If it remains a watered down, fairly easy cert then why bother?

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

Be sure to tape it to the inside of the glass of the certificate frame. Then, hang that on the wall right next to your W2K Early Achiever card.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Pete Indianapolis

I always like reading about people who have this MS cert or that and are "now going to Linux" or some other OS. Either you are new to the overall idea of certifications (every one has them - RH and Comptia for Linux) and ALL have issues. I have lots, I seem to collect them as a Consultant and while most are merely a tax writeoff come Apr XX, to prospective clients, it shows that you have attained at least some degree of knowledge. Even the so called "paper certs" know something (perhaps not much, but something). I have all of MS "premier certs", most of CompTia's and two from Novell (I was new then). the certs only mean something to you if you can use them to get a return on your investment. If you can not get any type of return from your current or projected certs, then perhaps you need to find a new area of interest. ALL of my jobs/contracts came as a result of my certs; my bonuses and continued employment come from MY knowledge/performance. Way to go MS, load up on the Certs. MCSA may be a mid-range cert but it does have value to those that are smart enough to use it properly. As for getting "tech-net free for a year" or some other freebie, it sounds to me that some of you seem to think that since you out of the goodness of your heart decided to bend low enough to get a MS cert that MS should now thank you and give you free this or that. Grow up! IF you have a brain, then you got into this because the pay is good and the job is fun. If you have a poor paying job and/or it is not fun - go get a new cert (and a charter card) and put out some new resumes'!

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Bruce Kenney 2 World Trade Center, 80th Fl

I also think MCP, MCSA, and MCSE are good certs to have.
I'm an MCSE+I. Because of this I got promoted twice, and have
received bonuses larger than most people salaries. But, what drives me nuts is that, Microsoft treats me the same way as some terrorist scum bag from the Middle East. After all the time and dedication we've put in to getting our Microsoft Certs, I think we should get some extra special treatment, like at least 1 free tech support call.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Jonathan PA

I agree with Bjorn, the certification is the starting point, it gives companies a reference to begin evaluating employees and potential employees. It is not the end all for your career objective. There are plenty of college grads with no real skills, but you don't complain about that. It takes only a few minutes to see through the paper MCSE's and to find those with real experience and skill. Instead of griping about, you need to continue to provide feedback to produce results, not start petty little arguments.
ANd last, I also agree with the need for a Master MCSE level: should be a MCP, MCSA,MCSE and Master MCSE which is the brass ring of the certs.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Henry PA

It all boils down to MONEY. If an employer wants give a job to the MCSE or MCSA, it may be worth taking the test. If the EMPLOYER wants to give an EMPLOYEE a raise because they suffered the training and spent the money for the test... the raise may be worth the aggrivation. If you take these tests just to have them under your belt, you are GUILY of cheapening the IT industry. It would be the same as if you were salaried employee and worked 65 or 70 hours a week because you have no other life. Essentially, you are cheaping the IT industry. Take the tests but make sure you are paid for your risks and hours of study. MS should be a better partner to their MCSE etc. Microsoft should have better tactics to make sure people with these certs don't sell their collegues $hort. The market is getting flooded with too many IT people. Raise the bar.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Craig Madison

I will benefit from focusing on what certification will increase my value. I feel that it is a waste of my time to discover why microsoft is doing and has done what they have done with the program. If getting a certification does not benefit you then perhaps time would be better spent working on something worthwhile rather than focusing on what you don't like microsoft is doing. Some walk it and some just talk it.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Andy Reading

OK, I've been sucked into th MS cert hype - MCSE NT4, taking final exam for MCSE Win2k tomorrow, figured as I only need one more exam for MCSA, I might as well do that before trying to find a job.
Training and Certification page on MS website (and 2 emails from MS) screaming at me to register today to be an MCSA - must be some kinda aptitude test, and I've failed - can't even find an official launch date for 70-218 (yeah everyone says 22/01/2002...) or when/where I can get a book to study from.

Fri, Jan 11, 2002 Bjorn Nottingham

I very rarely write responses to these thread type things because its usually done by people who have nothing better to do that whine about life. This is a classic example of one where a group of people who have nothing better to do with their employers time, so they come here to gripe about how Microsoft have been so unfair to them. Anthony says that he changed his entire career path because of the MS Cert "changes". Oh my God, get a life... its pathetic. Bottom line is, "you" are what makes "your" certification meaningful. A cert is usually the beginning and not the end. For some a full MCSE is not a requirement for what they want to do in IT and the MCSA is. If you dont like it, dont do it.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Pure MCSE W2k Sweden

I think it´s a good idea to have the MCSA as a level between MCP and MCSE.
What i really miss is something above the MCSE on W2k.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

I think we have a Microsoft employee writing in here.....hmmm first 5000th...sounds like a marketing guy/gal.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 bivins harrisburg pa

I believe it’s a great “milestone” cert overall not bad, more initials to add after my name. Most of the whiners are not certified anyway. As the old saying goes…I rather watch a sermon lived than hear one. With XP and 2000 the brain dumpers won’t survival to long on the silicon front line of the work place battlefield. On my way to become one of 5000 and will be proud of IT!!!!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Scott Spiess Roseville, Ca

Rock on James!!!! I think a Master MCSE is a great idea. I used the MCSE+I as an example in my last post. After I posted the message I figured out that you could not have the +I because IIS and IP are wrapped up in the core exams. So Master MCSE it is (pipe in people ). Hey Microsoft how does that sound? You know I found after reading the transcript about the MCSA live chat here on where Microsoft said, "All is good and they have heard no negative reaction to this certification." The person running the chat typed in that there has been some negative reaction to the new cert here at the web site. Microsoft, I think its time you started listening to us. We have all spent a lot of time studying for exams and paying for the tests to earn our certifications. How about piping in here and please use your real name and email addresses. I just read an article on (posted yesterday) about Microsoft employees being caught rigging a online survey (zdnet) because .Net was not coming out on top. I honestly hope Microsoft pipes in here and is honest with us, because we are all in the same boat. If the Microsoft certifications have problems then we all have lost a lot of time and effort. As pissed as I am at Microsoft, I do not want to see that happen.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 golinux Anonymous

I've been an MCSE since 3.51, have my MCSE+I, and was an early MCSEW2K. I am totally fed up with M$ watering down the certs, lessening the requirements and passing scores, and doing nothing to stop the cheaters and braindumps (way to go CompTIA!). All M$ cares about is the number of certified individuals, not their quality. I'm also disgusted with their overpriced, buggy software. I'm going totally with Linux and steering my clients that way as well. I suggest you read the writing on the wall and do the same.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Avdhesh Anonymous

One more way to earn money for Microsoft. I cant figure out why should one go for 70-218 after passing three core exams when there is not much difference in the course material. This exam must have been integrated with the core exams.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Anthony Anonymous

I am a MCSE 2000, although, due to all the HOO-HAA and backflips MS have done with their certification in the last few months, I have decided to get away from Microsoft and bring forward my career into Proj Mgmt/Team Mgmt, which means a "non-microsoft-technical" role. I have taken a recent Mgmt position within my company for this reason alone. Microsoft has single-handedly devalued MCSE certification stature for the allimghty dollar$$. The inconsistencies in guidelines, policies, values and not to mention commercialisation of certification coming out of Microsoft is not good for the people who want to further their careers. I don't feel that I can effectively further my career when I am alligned with Micrsoft in terms of certification. I am also a CNE. I have never had this problem with Novell. SHAME ON YOU MICROSOFT!!!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Terry Phoenix

I agree with James from singapore. A Master MCSE program would really separate the "men from the boys" (no offense ladies). It takes more than your average Joe IT person to properly maintain back office stuff at an enterprise level. And with all the .NET stuff rolling out it will be hectic to keep up.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 james singapore

I suggest Microsoft promote MMCSE or Master MCSE.

Let me explain what it is for. As we all know taking mcse is about 7 papers, etc. But if u move around the industry, companies uses different back-end products, eg some companies use sms, and some companies don't use sms, etc

What MMCSE does is the person is supposed to be ceritifed in almost 90% of back-end products so that they are train to handle different products. The exam shld covers from a combination of products eg exchange,proxy, sms, sql and how each impact the other.

I believe that will raise the bar !!!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Chung Jonghyuck Seoul, Korea

It's just a small plastic card. More meaningful policy is needed than so-called membership card or something.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Up the Deep

Another thought....what's next? MCIT? Microsoft Certified Installation Technician? MCMS? Microsoft Certified Mouse Specialist? MCBP? Microsoft Certified Button Pusher?

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Bob Anonymous

I agree that if you don't like the cert don't bother to sit for the exams. I'm working on my MCSE and it is encouraging to me to have some mid-point recognition for my efforts.

Also, there are a lot of exams to get an MCSE; some folks will never benefit from some of the MCSE stuff but will benefit from MCSA when it fits the actual job they are performing.

I encourage all of you that want to rush over to Linux to hasten and do it, that will make more room for those of us that want to stay with MS. I wish you the best of luck wherever you go!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Jim Long Island NY

I agree, nice game MS is trying to play taking people for fools. Just remember what goes around comes around and MS will get shafted like they shafted everyone else. Linux here I come.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Shooting the Hip

MCSA just muddies the waters. It cheapens the MCSE 2000 certification and makes it harder on the people that worked their collective a$$e$ off to get MCSE 2000 certification. This was done just to appease the MCSE NT people.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 that's Anonymous


Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Randy Leonard, MCSE I broke the Hubbel

Microsoft, who loves ya baby? Anytime there's a discussion of what you've done with Certifications, the comments are about 8-9 out of 10 again ya. You must be doing something wrong. Anyway, thanks for letting me keep my MCSE, after that, uncle, I give, it's too big a mess.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Going Not Much to Nothing

Why not a prize or something. What in the heck are we going to do with this card? Will it despense cash from an ATM? or just collect dust in our wallets?. Charter Membership my @ss...

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Anonymous Anonymous

Microshafted you are missing the intentional loss of money on the X-Box to gain market share and use market power to sway potential customers. By the way...there X-Box customer support really sucks!!!!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 wwwl wwwl

i want find CertCities

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Already MCSE2K In The Field

I think it is just fine, It is nice to have goals and this will help the people (non complainers) to keep motivative during the transition. Why not -- stop complaining and get studying and get certified

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Brad LA

You said it Pete, ooooh a wallet card... Will you put a little star on my exam paper if I pass too? Come on, we're the means by which you're expanding your empire. You make the $ while we struggle with your buggy software. Give us something good!!!

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Microshafted Redmond

Big effin deal, MS! What I'd like to know is when you're going to SERIOUSLY start supporting your certified people.

First they yanked the free tech support calls, then they yanked the free Technet, then they put up the price of tech support incidents by 50%, and now they're putting up the price of exams by 25%. And effin Billy is the one of the world's richest men? with so much money he has to employ people full time to give it away?

This company just doesn't make sense, and they are so big that you can't even talk to them.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Jo MN

MCP, MCSA, MCSE...They are all good certs to have. The fact is...that M$ made up the certs, so they can do whatever they want with them. Just like Novell has several levels of certs, why can't M$? Once people become familiar with the MCSA they will see that it has value to those who do not need tests like the design ones because they are not architects. This sounds like a good cert for someone who is simply administering their M$ network. I don't believe that M$ created a mess by not decertifying NT4 MCSEs. People worked hard for that cert, and it comes to a great relief for many. Those certified in Win2k will also get their recognition. I still use all of the skills that were represented in the NT4 exams. Just because M$ retires these exams does not mean that I automatically forget all of that info. Certifcations are different for many people. For some it is just a formality, backing up their knowledge of M$ products. For some it is a beginning point, and a great way to get their foot in the door for jobs. Sure there are some that are paper MCSEs, but a good technical interview will weed out the ones that are no good.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Scott Spiess Roseville, Ca

Hi there again, I am not against anyone trying to better himself or herself with whatever certifications there is out there. My issue is "why" the MCSA came about and the timing of its release. The MCSA was put out in front of us because the certification planners at Microsoft flip-flopped on the retirement of the NT 4.0 track. Once this was done they also un-retired a lot of NT 4.0 electives. This created a lot of MCSE’s and increased the number of certifications to make Microsoft look better. This was done because there was not a wide acceptance of the Windows 2000 MCSE track. None of this un-retirement was in the original plan. The MCSA was put in front of us to attempt to clean up the mess that was made and to help people who were late on keeping up their certification. This was not for our benefit nor is it going to help with the clarification of what Microsoft certifications stand for. The water has been muddied and Microsoft needs to straighten things out. Once things settle down a bit, lets have Microsoft open the floor to meaningful and factual discussions about what is actually needed in the working environment. At this point our employers can also be properly educated on what that certification actually is and who are the target audience of that certification. Right now we have people who are hiring people who do not know what the MCSA is. We have other people who have passed a few tests and don’t know whether they are MCSE’s or not. In another forum, one of Microsoft certification people commented that the MCSA should not be explained as a mid-level certification. This is very strange to me because the MCSA is between the MCP and the MCSE isn’t it? I commented in the other forum that this was nothing more than a Microsoft spin on damage control. I respectfully stand behind my comments. If Microsoft wants to introduce another certification, it should be the MCSE+I. I think it is a waste to have people study so hard to get their MCSE+I and to loose it because Microsoft wants to dumb things down. We should raise the bar not lower the bar. At this time the MCSE will once again become the mid-level certification as it always was. Just for the record, I am not a MCSE+I.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 David RTP, NC

I agree with Kevin. Why is everyone complaining. If you dont want to get your MCSA then dont get it. I think it is a great idea to have a Charter to give the first few people with the Cert some credit. It is also nice that Microsoft is allowing some of the other Certs to count as requirements like A+ and Net+. Bottom line is up to you. If you are truly studing to get you MCSE this is another Cert that you can achieve along the way.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Kevin Norfolk

Why are you complaining, if you went tot ake the test you must have realized that it would benefit you in someway. If you dont want the cert dont take the test. Im sure all the paper mcse's are upset aboout this because its just more braindumps that they have to MEMORIZE. People that are really working and truly STUDYING the material appreciate the MCSA cert because it gives you extra motivation to continue to complete your MCSE. Part of the reason is that after 1 test you are an MCP, buty it takes 5-6 more before you get another certification.

Thu, Jan 10, 2002 Amos Lai Penang

I agree with Scott Spiess. MCSA should not be chartered. It does not sound great. Nothing if compared to MCSE or MCSD. I would rather get an MBA in IT.

Wed, Jan 9, 2002 Pete Mass

Oooh! Special Edition Wallet Card Charter Membership. That's much better than a 1 year subscription to Technet.. I feel sooooo special...

Wed, Jan 9, 2002 Larry Ellison Redmond

Your right about that scott. MS looked at the number of people going for the their MCSE 2000, and realized the numbers were to low. They tried all sorts of things to get the numbers up, like test discounts, hype, etc... They created the MCSA as way to get more people certified on Windows 2000/XP

Wed, Jan 9, 2002 Jacob Balser San Rafael, CA

It seems to me like the 70-218 is an amalgamation of the MCSE Core exams. Maybe they should just add more questions to the Core exams, and we wouldn't have to pay for as many tests.

Wed, Jan 9, 2002 Scott Spiess Roseville, Ca

This is a big mistake. The MCSA is nothing but damage control for a certification system that is out of hand. Microsoft, get your act together and give us something meaningful. The MCSA is not meaningful.

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