News

Microsoft Rescinds Retirement of NT 4.0 MCSE Track (Original Post, with Comments)

In a significant announcement made late Wednesday, Microsoft is no longer retiring the certifications of those who obtained their MCSE title under the NT 4.0 track.

Call it listening to customers and partners. In a significant announcement made late Wednesday, Microsoft is no longer retiring the certifications of those who obtained their MCSE title under the Windows NT 4.0 track. At the same time the company publicly announced for the first time just how many people currently hold the MCSE credential under Windows 2000.

In a conference call with Robert Stewart, General Manager of the Microsoft Training and Certification Group, and Anne Marie McSweeney, Microsoft's Director of the Certification and Skills Assessment Group, MCPmag.com learned that the company has reversed itself from a stern policy decision set two years ago to decertify those who hold the NT 4.0 MCSE title by the end of this year.

Microsoft has rewritten how it will look at its certification titles. Historically, Microsoft has periodically retired credentials earned on older versions of its products.

Starting immediately, no longer will Microsoft-certified IT professionals be faced with a decertification process; instead, Microsoft says that it will create version designations of its titles. An MCSE holding the title under the NT 4.0 track will be designated as "MCSE on Windows NT 4.0." MCSEs in Windows 2000 will now be formally referred to as "MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000."

McSweeney said the updated designations will appear on MCP transcripts probably beginning in April 2002.

The new policy affects titles in the program moving forward. Specifically, it affects those who hold the NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 versions of the MCSE, as well as the MCP+Internet, MCSE+Internet, MCP+Site Building, MCSD, and MCT. However, McSweeney emphasized that the company won't offer new credentials for MCSE+I, MCP+I, or MCP+Site Building under Windows 2000 or Windows .NET Server.

Under the revisions, those candidates who have passed all core exams for the MCSE on Windows NT 4.0 can continue to earn an MCSE credential on Windows NT 4.0 using exams that are currently being offered.

Unaffected by the announcement are MCSDs in the Windows Operating System and Services Architecture track (exams 70-150 and 70-151) and the Windows Architecture track (exams 70-160 and 70-161) and MCSEs certified in Windows NT 3.51. Those who have not upgraded to the current tracks of their respective certifications will remain decertified.

Why the change of heart? Stewart says that since the company made the original decision years ago, the IT climate has become more complex.

"Back then, we tried to hold to a simple, clear message," said Stewart. "But as the industry has moved to a complex and heterogeneous approach to technology, we figured that keeping [the certification program] simple wasn't the best solution. We wanted to do the right thing."

One factor in the decision, he said, was that Microsoft realized the industry could absorb that complexity. Also, Microsoft has realized that it can't predict the appropriate timing for such retirements. The new policy eliminates the need for those predictions. Plus, it allows companies to be able to identify individuals certified on Windows NT 4.0 while the product is still part of their IT environments.

"[Microsoft] had what might be called an identity crisis," added McSweeney. The company said evidence had built up proving NT 4.0 expertise was still needed. Customers and partners only reinforced that conclusion. Microsoft finally decided to reexamine its decertification policy. "We shouldn't be the ones calling the shots; we should let the market decide that."

The policy change will not affect the retirement of the 70-240 Win2K Accelerated Exam, which Stewart maintains will still happen Dec. 31, 2001. (The free voucher for this exam must be ordered by Nov. 1, 2001; see "Free Voucher Offer Ends Nov. 1" in News.)

The news brings a reprieve to those MCTs who have been struggling to achieve certification on Windows 2000. While Microsoft Certified Trainers are still expected to obtain the newer credential or another premium title such as MCSD or MCDBA, the deadline has been pushed back to May 1, 2002 from its original date of December 31, 2001.

In a side note, McSweeney revealed that about 47,000 people worldwide have obtained the MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000.

About the Author

Michael Domingo is Editor in Chief of Virtualization Review. He's been an IT writer and editor for so long that he remember typing out news items in WordStar.

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Reader Comments:

Wed, Nov 12, 2008 Anonymous Anonymous

Good site! great job, thanks

Sat, Apr 3, 2004 Brian NE

Does it really matter anyway? MS Certifications are really a joke! Read, retain, test...wham, your certified. I've worked with numerous MCSE's who couldn't swap out a hard drive on a desktop let alone implement network infrastructure & security. Wanna see a real Certification? Look at the Linux program, hand on for tech's who have to show than can actually do it & not simply pass a writen test. MS or M$?

Sat, Feb 2, 2002 Mick Uruguay

Wintows NT 4 is out there 6 yrs already and regardless of the OS you are certified on, I think Microsoft should implant a free "actualization" exam on all MCSE´s every 3 yrs or so, just to check if you are keeping the level.
Some IT certified professionals are not updated and don´t know much anymore, because they´re been working in other areas. That´s what I think

Thu, Jan 17, 2002 KIRAN BANGALORE - INDIA

I am really pleased to hear that Microsoft has changed it's policy that my MCSE certification is not going to be invalid after Dec 31st. Microsoft has no right to decertify the certified proffessionals who have spent lot of money and time efforts to study and get certified. Microsoft escaped from the wrath of MCSEs in this regard.

Thu, Dec 13, 2001 Penny Las Vegas, NV

It's about time Micro$oft did something to benefit their customers and supporters instead of their wallets. I know many people who vowed never to try Microsoft certification again if all of their efforts would be for nothing after a few years. After all, MCSE certification is a lot of effort and can cost thousands of dollars. This is good news. I know people who proudly hold both MCSE certifications for both OS's, and they have my respect. I have yet to get my first one but this news has heartened me and motivated me a bit. I'm choking as I say this, but thank you Bill Gates.

Thu, Nov 22, 2001 Phil NY

I feel that this is excellent news. Windows 2K has many bugs requires companies to upgrade when this is no value other thanb running the new OS. As a result many companies are not prepared nor want to move to this upgrade. Many companies are considering staying with their current server and moving back to Novell due to the expensive and complexity of the Microsoft licensing. So the current NT 4.0 MCSE will still be very important during this transition.

Wed, Nov 14, 2001 George Choi Hong Kong

what's the deal ? certified w2k first or let yr company move to w2k first. this depends on what yr company use w2k for. The real functions and needs drive the process. certification is not just skills but also experience. Still have case that I saw paper MCSE W2K, so there is no point to retire NT4. as long as business need it, u hv to support it. MS is having too many OS delivered to the market, will it stabilize to allow whole set of real MS professional in one supported platform. Do u think MCSE W2K will be retiring in 2002 or 2003 and replaced by WIN XP or .NET ?

Wed, Nov 7, 2001 Dario Moscoso Lima, Peru

What wonderful new !!! I´m still a MCSE on track 4.0, and in my country there´s many networks based on NT 4.0. Microsoft listened us, because many people still holds this MCSE certification. I´m planning to re-certificate in Windows Y2K by mid-2002, so I now have time to study and take a deep acknowledgement on Win Y2K. Thanks to Microsoft.

Designations are the right way to differenciate between MCSE´s with 4.0 and Y2K. That´s a good idea, because you don´t loose certification. It costed me blood, sweat and tears !!!

Tue, Nov 6, 2001 Frank Brasil

I plan to migrate my MCSE in NT 4.0, but more time is not a problem!

Tue, Nov 6, 2001 Baltimore

Since Microsoft isn't retiring MCSE WinNT 4.0 certifications and I just busted my hump to get my Windows 2000 MCSE. I guess the MCSE is about as worth as much as my A+ certification, huh.

Fri, Nov 2, 2001 Starat Nigeria

Now I can go ahead to sit for the exams,because you can imagine after investing such huge amount of money and time in preparing for the exams and somebody wakes up and tell me my certificate is no longer valid;to me that Vainty of the highest order.But I have just heard of the latest-MCSA,when will the books be ready so that we can start warming up for the exams?

Wed, Oct 31, 2001 Jan Manchester, England

Good news, well done Microsoft.
I've got all the core NT exams but did'nt have enough time left to sit the remaining exams for my MCSE due to there retirement. Can anyone tell me which exams I now take (that have'nt been retired) to complete my MCSE NT, as the way I read it I should be allowed to complete this!! Oh and yes I do know that I can take the 240 upgrade, which I am presently studying for.
Ps. Paper MCSE's what the hell does that mean most people I know studied hard for there NT MCP/MCSE's. Even though I was'nt working in the IT industry when I was studying and I did use cramsessions
during my study I do not consider myself a paper MCP. I now work as a Network Engineer and know more than most at my place of work. So stop bad mouthing all NT MCSE's!!!

Tue, Oct 30, 2001 vito Long Island

will i be still able to take the mcse tests for nt 4.0 at testing sites.

Mon, Oct 29, 2001 Mike Wissa California

In information World, there was an article. There is 384,000 MCSE NT 4.0 certified. I am one of them. I am glad they will not take it away. I could relax about upgrading to 2000 for now.

Sun, Oct 28, 2001 Phil Wellington, England

Ref: - "... after all everyone had more than one year of time to upgrade its certifikation (sic)". This is a bit disingenuous. After all, the vast majority of NT4 MCSE's had more than a years experience of NT4 prior to undertaking the certification, and there is the issue of paradigm shift with Active Directory to take into account. I have a number of colleagues who have had no exposure to (and therefore no experience of) AD, due to the reluctance of companies to adopt W2K as anything other than high availability member servers in their existing NT4 domain structures. And try as you might, multi-site directories with real live internet connected DDNS infrastructures are hard to create in the "home" lab. IT Pros do not drive the adoption of these technologies, we have to service the current business requirements of our respective industries first - and in many cases that means facing 2002/2003 before seeing wholesale adoption of W2k & AD.

Fri, Oct 26, 2001 Scott Spiess Anonymous

This is not a good idea and I think Microsoft should not let the marketing department run the show. If people are not getting their MCSE for 2K then that should tell Microsoft something. Microsoft, make up your mind and stick with it. Stop waffling on everything. I don't respect a company that cannot make up its mind!

Thu, Oct 25, 2001 Dane Hays

I felt like I rushed pretty hard to get ready and pass the 70-240 exam because of the NT4 Cert being retired. If they hadn't waited so long to announce this...it sure would have saved me some stress. However thinking that the NT4 track was going to be retired did motivate me and now that I have gotten my butt in gear and passed the win2k upgrade exam I can't say that I wish things were different.

Thu, Oct 25, 2001 jddw Anonymous

Really fed up with Microsoft lies. What about all those fools like me that upgraded to W2K. At the very least Ms should fully publicise the fact that now two MCSE certifications exist and provide new documentation for W2K MCSE's clearly distinguishing them from NT4 MCSE's. Immediatly, not from April 2002!

Tue, Oct 23, 2001 anonymous anonymous

I am glad that they decided that can't dictate the software market. I am still not going to renew my certification.
I am recommending all companies go to linux and the sysamdin's can get some sleep at night. I don't care what Microsoft says their software is still a single user system and it is still bases on dos.

Sun, Oct 21, 2001 Ramasamy Madurai, India

Microsoft has probably done a right thing by announcing that the 4.0 exams will not be retired. it was too harsh on all those 4.0 mcseS, to suddently become decertified. just because 2k is available not that all in the market will straight away scrap their currnet OS and go for 2k. i think Microsoft should just leave the people to remain certified for ever once they clear the exams in their respective track. they will find their employment job opprtunities wherever possible. by retiring the exams microsoft forces it's product onto everyone particularly the IT professionals, who support their products. for instance i started with CNE and moved to Microsoft 3.51 track and certified again on 4.0 - now i am fed up with microsft's policy of retiring the exams and subsequent decertification and decided not to got for 2k. i don't thin this is different with many others, atleast many at my work place. i think the total count of 2k MCSEs released by microsoft, is only an indication that the charm towards the certification is fast fading away. In all, Microsoft has come up with this announcement, if not at the right time, atleast not late. BETTER LATE THAN NEVER. THANK YOU.

Sun, Oct 21, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

(see message 10/11/01 from anonymous).. if you want to compare NT4 vs W2K MCSEs; in the Netherlands there currently are about 10.000 NT4-MCSEs and 'only' 400 W2K-MCSEs.. (btw: the Netherlands is 3rd on the certification list in west-europe in absolute (!) numbers)..

Sat, Oct 20, 2001 Matthew Reynolds GA

My employer has no intention of deploying Win2k yet, in Workstation or Server flavors. I don't believe there are many companies that have deployed it fully. My guess is that many of the 47,000 MCSE2K's are the very "Paper" MCSE about which they are whining!

If anything, letting us keep our MCSE on NT4.0 will REDUCE the number of people that upgrade to MCSE2K. Personally, I have NO intention to spend that much time to aquire ANOTHER certification that doesn't benefit me enough to justify the effort.

Sat, Oct 20, 2001 Gehan Sri Lanka

Good news, though I feel Microsoft should have kept alive the NT exams or restart them now, to give Win2k MCSE's like me, a chance to learn and certify on the old technology, since the NT 4.0 platform is still very much in business today....and the demand for those skilled in it, has not diminished in most countries as yet.

Sat, Oct 20, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

At last MS see sense, I work for a reseller/support company and on average install 1 server per week, to date I have only installed ONE Win2k server. If MS were to retire NT4 MCSE's I would have been forced to become a paper MCSE. Maybe the uptake elsewhere has been greater, but here in the UK interest in Win2k Server is only just starting.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 hdollar Harrisburg PA

Lets get real. The only reason for the change is Microsoft realized that not everyone was updating to 2K and they were about to loose money and certified people who did not update.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 Marco Houson, TX

That's GREAT! However, I was still going to list myself as being an MCSE on WIN NT 4.0 on my resume for the next few years ANYWAY!

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 Anonymous Michigan

Micrsoft did the right thing. To have retired the NT 4.0 MCSE Certificate would have been like having a BS degree in EE and the University sends you a letter years after saying, guss what, your degree is not worth it anymore,.... we have retired it.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 joginder sidhu Covina -CA

This annoncement has a little effect on me. Because I have completed Three NT4.0 Exams in Dec 2000 and changed the idea to pass the 4th 70-058 exam which was available up to Feb 2001 as MCSE Certification in NT 4.0 was to retire in DEC 2001 by previous announcement. Now I have one option to sit in Accelerated 70-240 Exam which is so hard. Microsoft has rescinds NT4.0 certification why not NT 4.0 Exams should be RETRIEVE so that I can complete my MCSE in NT4.0 within no time and save money.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 Rob Newport Beach

Isnt it funny that to everyone who has their W2K cert, people with 4.0 certs are just "paper" MCSEs. Reality check people, there are the same percentage of W2k "Paper" MCSEs are there are 4.0. I know, I work with a boat load of them! Get over yourselves.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I had over a years exp. with NT 4.0 before I started my SE track..I did not want to be a "Paper" SE..I wanted to KNOW the information. My company is not looking to go to 2000 for at least another year so I was dreading my choices..lose my cert or take my 2000 cert not fully understanding the info. I am still working towards my 2000 cert and feel that the "paper" 4.0 certs who haven't bother to understand the information will weed themselves out. We don't have to like it but as long as companies pay for the certs we will have people who fake their way thru. I worked hard for my 4.0 cert and am working hard on my 2000 cert and I am glad that I will be able to keep both on my resume as long as I am in this field.

Fri, Oct 19, 2001 David Manchester

I think a bit more grace would be appropriate from W2K MCSEs who were obviously relishing the thought of being the only recognised MCSEs after this year. When I finally qualify as W2K MCSE I want it recognised that I also qualified in NT4, which after all is the technology W2K is based on.

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 Ejaz Pakistan

Great! but what about the upgrade process. If someone fails to
upgrade before before Dec 31 will he have to give all the papers of Win2k.
Ejaz. MCSE NT4

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 Ejaz Pakistan

Great! but what about the upgrade process to WIn2K. If someone fails to
upgrade before before Dec 31 will he have to give all the papers of Win2k

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

A piece of good news that MS is not retiring NT4 certification but what if i pass my upgrade exams now (before DEC 31)will i get the MCSE Win2k certificate.

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 Rob MA

Microsoft has done it again. I started my NT track in October of 2000 and finished it in time, then they extended it. I finished my 2k track in time, and now they extend that, indefinately! I don't really mind saying your NT cert is good for another year or so, or saying you still have it, but make some incentive for getting the 2k cert. Paper MCSE's are out there and 2k was going to return meaning to the cert. Forget that now, Microsoft is concerned that only 47,000 of us updated. Well, I know some who are very good MCSE's and have a test or two to go, but I know far more that haven't even really started because they know they can't pass the exams.

There are paper certs in all companies, I worked for a paper CCNA once. When I was hired, he suddenly locked himself in his office for two weeks and took the test. Once he obtained the cert, the didn't even realize his designs had three ports designed for two frame connections and only three dlci numbers. I worked hard for my certs, I want them to have meaning. If you are not going to retire the cert, then have the new designations ready instead of saying we will fix it in 4 or 5 months.

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 P Houston

Good Job Microsoft! I am NT certified and have no plans on certifying in 2000 until next year...never did. I have been project manager for two W2K migrations already and am about to do a third, yet I still work mostly with NT. Unlike you 'early achievers', I don't depend on a certification for a job. My degree and experience speaks for itself.

To all of you 'early achievers' who are complaining about this, if you had any understanding of business, (or the ability to write with any clarity), you would understand why this decision was made. By complaining, you are only showing your lack of business understanding.

All of you having a W2K certification so soon only tells me that the paper MCSE's are still hard at work and can still pass a test. (Hey, I can read a book too). To all of you who have never installed a W2K server in a production environment yet are already certified, guess what... you are a PAPER MCSE!!! As for me, I'll get the experience first and pass the tests later.

Out!!!

Thu, Oct 18, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Last I read (MCP Magazine), there were over 300,000 NT4 MCSEs

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 Christopher Dolliver Taipei

Winners or whiners! Face the facts guys,
NT4.0 will still be out there for some time.
I see nothing wrong with keeping the certification. Like most people, I am more than aware of the "paper MCSE's", but they are being weeded out and like all weeds-it takes time...Companies and professionals are getting shrudder with interviews and testing of applicants, so in the end the paper and inflated ego is all that is there for those "paper MCSE's" to ogle over! (not to mention their debts!). Come on, the real blame should be placed squarely on Microsoft's shoulder to start with, and not the poor saps taken advantage of that thought they could push their way into the industry, and stay there without proving themselves worthy (although some manage longer than others and some will actually do well). Microsoft is the one that gave partnerships to all of those "quick learning shops" with a blessing because they get a cut of the profits and must supply the materials. Also, they get those poor saps to continue to purchase the products and the companies that they work for to pay outrages prices for the support that they shouldn't require in the first place (all normal factors and bugs excluded). Microsoft has become a big franchised cash cow and thought that they had made it far enough and high enough to make things a little tougher; like other certifications. Someone has obviously overturned that way of thinking in order to milk the cow (public) a little more before toughning-up and gaining more respect in the industry. How high will they go??? Undoubtable, they will be around for a long time and are currently calling most of the shots. So, sit back and be greatful that at least there is a "Microsoft".

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 Christopher Dolliver

Is it a blessing? I have all of the core requirements + one, thus only require one more exam for NT4.0. I plan to take exam 70-240 and to obtain certification in w2k. So according to the new way of things, once I take any other non-core exam that could be included on both tracks I will be certified in NT4.0, and still get 1 credit for the w2k track.
While this sounds fine to me, it will be nice to have both certifications, it might not sit well with some people. Perhaps I am wrong on this issue and Microsoft should make it a little clearer, but I call- em-as-I-see-em!
In the past were all retired exams removed from transcripts?

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 Ed USAF, Georgia

I think it is appropriate the path Microsoft is taking. This way it gives clear guidance as to what people are certified on, either 4.0 or 2K. I see a lot of whining in feed back from others about this issue. Let the cert process be what it was meant to be, a way of testing a certain degree of knowledge. Some say certification isn't important, i beg to differ. I'm in the USAF and certs don't count towards anything except the fact that i know i'm comparable to the professionals in the civillian world who have learned and implemented the MS way of doing things. Those that whine about it not being important obviously have a complex or are too afraid to try. The benefits of being certified far outway not being certified. If you're smart enough to pass. I think keeping the 4.0 track is smart. It gives people a sense of achievement and something to build on. As for all of the whiners who say it's not important, go ahead and work hard to prove yourself at an equal level to an MCSE.

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 KBD Orlando

Oh Barf. I agree with the folks that say people who haven't upgraded to a win2k MCSE by now can't or won't. I say let 'em rot. No othert cert from CISCO or COMPTIA stays around for longer than 2 or three years. I managed to get my Nt 4 and Win2k MCSE in time, can't the rest of the whiners do it too ?

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 Doug Chick Orlando FL

I guess Microsoft remembered who there daddy's are. Not there shareholders but the people that actually purchase their product. :-)

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 JBarth Macon, Georgia

Microsoft, what is wrong with your heads, I am and have been a feild engineer for years being brought up through the ranks and earned every paqinful test score I tested out on, I even went to Win2k Certification obtained gold early acheiver status, and then Microsoft yanks back and caters to the masses of (What I call) paper MCSE.
Yes there is a flood of you out there that can't even do basics not alone advanced engineering and you got your MCSE by a paper trail or bootcamp. The MCSE 2000 certifications was a cry of good news showing us out there that finally those that had no practical or hands on knowledge would not be getting their MCSE 2000 certifications hence bringing more value to the MCSE certifications. You guys just made your certifications useless, by allowing the Masses to stay and not pushing forth with hard restrictions like the Win2K certs were.
The only reason people whined about it was becasue you can't pass the tests for Win2K and you wanted to milk the NT 4.0 certs.
I guess it is time to switch platforms to a company that stays to what they say,and does not back peddle. After all this is ridiculous.

Wed, Oct 17, 2001 JBarth Macon, Georgia

Microsoft is a pushover for the masses, they went a hardcore aproach to retiring MCSE NT 4.0 certifications, and stated a positive push towards the future, only when the babies that are too lazy to learn, and upgrade their certifications to MCSE Win2K certs, complained and whined did Microsoft ease off, and settle to keep the MCSE Win2k Certs.
What a lame aproach, I pushed hard not only to update from MCSE NT 4.0 to MCSE Win2k but also Gold certified early acheiver.
Microsoft just made this certification useless, and meaningless for those of us who pushed so hard to stay ahead of the pack. Microsoft caters to the babies, and those that don't wish to stay current, and forge ahead.
At least I can feel better when I speak to some of the lazy folks who wish to brag on their MCSE NT 4.0 certifications, and know that I kicked but on the Windows 2000 MCSE certifications.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Walter San Diego

Nice to know that MCSE certified people are still actively upgrading their certifications. Thank You Microsoft for the encouragement to get the books out!!. (Now I'm going to hit the snooze button a few more days and tackle W2K :)

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Jon Kentucky

This is the first smart move MS has done recently. What is the problem with an MCSE staying at a particular level, if that's what the MCSE and the employer want/need. An NT 4.0 MCSE, working on a purely NT 4.0 Network, in a company that is not planning to upgrade soon, is all that is needed. A jump to W2K certification is a useless gesture until the company makes the decision to upgrade. There are some companies that do not allow MS to dictate their upgrades to them. Even when the upgrade comes, the decision should rest with the MCSE and employer as to what level they want/need, not Microsoft.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Mohammad Kamran Hameed Abu Dhabi

very very good decision made by microsoft by keeping the huge amount of certified professional with itself because lot od professionals were changed their track.Now they think again .

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news. The client I support is upgrading to nt 4 from os2. I will hve my MCSE nt 4 before they upgrade. This should be a big plus

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Harry Palmz Los Angeles

Don't fight the feeling baby!

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

These are distinct certifications there is no reason to retire any of them. Simply label the certification for what it applies to.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

NT 4.0 has been out since what? 1996? W2K only came out last year. Wait 3 more years and you'll have your 400,000 W2K MCSEs.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous United Arab Emirates

Its very nice to hear that microsoft is not retiring the version 4 certification. That is that right way to give priority to those who have obtained the 2000 track and as well people with track 4 will be known as certified on track 4. I hope that know many of us will get a more chance to upgrade time to time on their convinent . and Can work with track 4 as the market still requires the ppl with track 4. Microsoft must take care of all as they work hard day and night on their products.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I have to laugh at all the uproar going both ways on this subject. I am getting ready to upgrade my certification any way. And just to let everyone know that if you were de-certified I don’t think you LOOSE your knowledge and experience at the stroke of midnight. Microsoft might wish we had memory dumps when they said new release is available. Everyone calm down and things will be ok.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous UK

I paid for my MCSE NT4 myself two years ago and am thankful that MS will now not take this away. As my company was not going to pay for my upgrade I would have lost certification. As it is I have paid for the upgrade course myself and I am still looking to upgrade to a MCSE 2K. I think ANY MCSE worth their salt should look to upgrade. Microsoft are right in looking to retire the NT4 track but the original announcement gave a too short a time period. I hope Microsoft rethink this and look to retire NT4 MCSEs at a more reasonable date.

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

That's a great news for MCSE like me who do not yet migrated/upgraded to MCSE 2000. It will be beneficial for all other MCSE who do not want to upgrade to MCSE 2000.
Thanks

Tue, Oct 16, 2001 Ranjit England

Can someone tell me if my two MCP's (NT4 Server and Workstation) will be valid. Thanks. ran_jut@hotmail.com

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Melbourne Australia

I think it is good news, I got my NT4 cert last year and about to sit win2K exams. I was worried about not being certified at the end of this year. It is true that if one chooses to be in this industry you need to upgrade. However, I think that microsoft needs to be flexible too. Otherwise people will just get put off by the idea of having to upgrade certification every 1-2 years. For sure if this was the case people will stop doing this certifications, and will loose all interest in SUPPORTING MS OS's. I am sure people would look for other certification alternatives. Let's hope that all your hard work to pass these exams does not need to be thrown away so quickly.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Bob Canada

Why should they retire the Accelerated exam? There is no good reason except that Microsoft won't make any money from it. I have upgraded from my MCSE to my MCDBA and ODBA this year, and so have almost run out of time to take the Accelerated exam.

They should afford the same oportunity to all NT 4.0 MSCE's.

Does anyone have somewhere to make this comment to Microsoft?

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Bill Anderson New York City

I feel Microsoft doesn't really care about its certification program and the quality of the product it is putting out. It is constantly rushing to market with products half done. And part of how it push it products is by retiring products, certifications, and peoples skill. I have two mcps, workstation and server. What about me.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Nadim Anonymous

I think this was just a bluff on Microsoft's part. From the beginning they were quite convinced not to retire this but somehow they wanted to produce W2k certified professionals as many as they could and this was the only way to make it work.
NT4 is still dominent and I was anticipating this news more or less at the same time.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Gogoboy Moscow-Idaho

I think Microsoft should be firm in their policies and stop changing the rules in the middle of the game...who knows they could rescind this decision again. It sounds to me like Microsoft Certification may be taken as a practical joke in the future

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

To anonymous from LA - you are completely incorrect = all major profesions must kee pcurrent on changes that happen much more quickly than technology changes - think Microsoft products change quickly - take a look at the law or medicine sometime

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I have studied for months to earn the MCSE 2000 and now this watering down makes it worthless - Thanks

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 anonymous Los Angeles

Microsoft has recinded it decision because it is in their best interest (vendor certification scheme). NT 4.0 networks will be around at least for a couple of years and the fact of the matter is that current MCSEs, once "stripped" of their hard earned titles will probably not renew or "upgrade".
God forbid should all Attorneys and Doctors in this country were stripped of their titles because they could not keep up with changes in their profession. Medical technology and procedures change all the time. Laws are changed and complex new laws are enacted at every level of government every year, however we do not see a mass "retirement" of titles.
I understand that we as MCSEs should "update" our skills with every new NOS, however not when the pace is every 12 months.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

You say the MCTs, MCSDs, and MCDBAs have their deadline date pushed back to May 2002 for their 2000 upgrade; can this not also apply to the MCSEs if they get their voucher before Nov 1, 2001?

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Well folks, I am A+, NT 4.0 MCSE. I've been working in this field for six years
now. I started out in a retail store repairing, upgrading and troubleshooting
pc's for the general public. And believe me, I saw just about everything you
can think of. From there, it wasn't diffcult to land a help desk support job.
I've been here on the same network for the past six years, help desk
support to field tech to advanced problem resolution and now network
management. I have lost interest in server admin because all I can see are
folks jockying for position, stepping on each other's toes, stabbing each other
in the back and a serious lack of team work. I have cleaned off all three of my systems(2k server, pro and xp) I'm hanging up my pursuit of MS certs. BTW, I have 2k MCP. Since I've been in network management for the last year or so and have obtained CCNA, Nortel and Fore certs. MS is on the back burner now. As for experience running or administering an NT or 2K server or domain, I have none, except what I gained from studying hard, working on my systems at home and managing the network here using HP-UX NNM and EMS, etc. From what I see and hear from a lot of you folks out there, my MCSE cert is no good since I don't have any experience. But I can probably perform server admin as well as any of you out there if given a chance.
I often find myself being queried by some server admins about performing tasks on the servers. Servers that I have no experience running. I changed careers from the telecom field and took more than a 60% pay cut to get started in this field, doesn't anybody have the slightest hint that I'm serious about this? I passed the 2k professional exam last week and the buck stops there...since I've been in net management for a year now, an interviewer or company would tell me 'well, you have no experience and you've been doing work not really related to M$ windows for the past year yadayadayada...' you know where that goes.
I'm hanging up my pursuit of M$ certs, not because of M$'s latest move, but because of hiring practices and braindump sites that give us a bad name. I no longer want any part of it.

Good Luck all in your future endeavors.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Rick Virginia

About time. Of all the MCSE's I know and work with, none had or have plans to upgrade to MCSE 2K at the current time. In fact, most have become disillusioned and disheartened by what they are perceive as the MCSE title becoming nothing but a "racket". I must admit, I concur. In my 15 year career the best performers that have worked for me have held no certification whatsoever while I have had one certified MCSE who could not format a floppy and was confused as to how a certain machine had a C drive and a D drive but only one hard drive inside.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Wonderful Texas

This is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so pleased to know that Microsoft is listening to MCSE's. Come on how dare you (Microsoft) think that you can control the efforts put forth for us SE's. I for one worked extremely hard for my SE and feel as though we are a large part of Microsoft's success. Joint effort

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Kris Chicago

This is nothing but good news for MCSEs and employers. The only people who should have a problem with are the people who earn an MCSE on Win2K but have never held one for NT4. If I was writing my resume and the cert had retired I would put on there that I had earned the MCSE on Windows NT4. If I were hiring someone I would want to know that. If I hire a Novell engineer and his/her resume said CNE, the first question that I would ask is on which version or version had they earned the CNE. Yes, the technology is constantly changing and I should keep up, certainly in areas in which I want to be marketable. I am now working toward Cisco certs and don't have the time or the interest to pursue Microsoft's latest cert, I certainly should be able to claim on a resume that I am an MCSE on Windows NT4.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 KT Anonymous

I understand the W2k certs would be upset by this, I would be too! I have used NT4 for 4 years, and was one exam away from cert when the retirement was announced. I was going to finish up before the end of the year, then work on W2k, but learned that the NT4 cert would lapse 1/02. I then started working on the W2k classes to get that instead. NOW I will finish that NT4 test, and get the W2k as I am using it, instead of by book knowledge and lab work! As stated before many times, BAD IDEA, MS, to try to drive the market with iron fisted certification policies!

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Will Harper Virginia Beach, VA

I don't see a direct upgrade path from MCSA to MCSE (e.g. take these three additional exams and get your MCSE).

Does anybody expect to upgrade?

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Arnold Barden Florida

WELL, FUCK MICROSOFT!!!
I have prepared a lot for this, and paid my MCSE 2k Boot Camp myself, and now those bastards comes and tells us that our NT4 MCSE still is going to continue!??
Of course they did a bad judgement from the beginning, when they said that those certifications were going to be rcalled. But they made quite a few people scared, and I do not think that I am alone in struggling for the next level, completely unneccesary!

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's a good idea to change the title to MCSE in NT.4 \ 2K. It shows what people are trained for and what systems they are certified to support, rather than having a generic MCSE. I am certified in both NT 4 and 2K and think that Chads opinion will be be reflected by many who rushed to be the first in 2k, but why should someone who has only woreked on 2k and is certified in 2k play with NT4 servers??

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Robert Switzerland

To change their policy 3 months before the official deadline is not very clever. They are cheating those who have struggled to achieve recertification in time. If their goal was to have fewer MCSE's to increase the value of the certification, then what they have announced now will achieve exactly the opposite. I can never believe anything from the Microsoft training department again.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Al St. Paul MN

Great news! many companies still have NT 4.0 inplace and will for some time.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 SK India

Due to new MS Products every year and its certifications and decertifying the previous products forced professionals to decide not to go after MS certifications. But with this significant announcement 20 - 30% professionals might reconsider their options of taking MS Certifications and how much it will worth for them. Anyway the swing Cisco certifications got from this seems to be continuing.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Chris McLellan Boston

What about NT 3.15 certification? That should be brought back as well. My Company still runs it.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 parrot irc.novernet.com

Having both certs is the "correct" way if you feel you really NEED the cert.
BTW, many people are on NT. Only new nets are likely to be2k only (JMOFO).
-
Also: to combat this psuedo-intellectual cert process, I am learning what I need to know without MSFT testing me like the SAT's.

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 madam Namibia

- Positive move, because how many companies are on w2k in Namibia?, Can someone provide me with the statistics?

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I truly feel CHEATED and TRICKED. Cheated because the Win2K certification isn't as valuable as I thought it would be and Tricked because I took the time and effort to maintain my MCSE by doing the 2000 track whilst I could have made my life a lot easier if I stuck to updating to NT4 from NT3.5x. If I had done that maybe by the middle of next year I would have been a MCSE x 2

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 Barry Pringle Marconi UK

Does this mean the Win 2K accelerated exam be taken after Dec 31 2001?

Mon, Oct 15, 2001 sanjay london

Superb News!! Now I feel MS has taken a right decision by adding a life to MCSE NT 4.0 .
Coz not many companies have still deployed 2k and are still thinking.

Sun, Oct 14, 2001 Optional Illinois

I have felt this great pressure to upgrade my mcse from 4 to 2000 the last 2 years. I received my 4.0 mcse in late 99 when the announcement was made. In this year, I have spent over $16,000 for MOC training to help me learn 2000. Granted this is very valuable training, but my employer is not planing to move to 2000 for another 2 years. I have been busting my ass to get MCSE for 2000 because Microsoft said we had to or lose our status. Because of that pressure I feel alot of anger towards microsoft in the fact that I shelled out a lot of money all at once on training that I could have spread over the next 2 years and possibly been able to have my company pay for the training once they decided to move towards 2000. I am finding in our area, most companies are not willing to rip out NT 4 that is working, just to put in 2000 because microsoft says to. Yes the fact that I will have my 2000 mcse will be nice, but by the time I will be actually using it on the job, with my current company or just about any other in the area, I will have forgotten most of it and will need to relearn it all over again. I am very upset at microsoft. After my 2000 MCSE I will not go after another microsoft certification. Bring on Linux!!

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 kwaku usa

That is good news. I will still do the w2k next year because I believe in matching up with changing technology, but to say that my nt4.0 is no longer valid was too harsh, because my company still uses it and are not willing to migrate to w2k.
The news is most welcomed.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Haha Anonymous

Just wondering if they are doing this because they want to announce XP exams and dont want to piss off the newly Win 2000 cert folks.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Thor Spokane, Washington

I simply think MS ("Uncle Bill") realized what a pompous ass they had become and realized from the minimal numbers(47,000) of MCSEs that had upgraded to W2K that their own "professionals" were giving them the old heave-ho.
Plus the fact that the Supreme Court just trounced their hopes of not facing penalties for being the nasty bunch of gansters they are. This is a pathetic attempt at patching up their "public image". I say @$%&! MS. They pull this garbage after I spend hundreds of man hours upgrading my W2K cert.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Anonymous Canada

Well, I'm of mixed opinions. I have held MCSE for 4.0 , 3.51 and 2000.
As a consultant I know the initials help so although I wasn't thrilled I got the 2000 track finished to become one of the 47,000 and got my Gold card.

The 2000 exams are a lot tougher so I don't think we should worry about paper MCSE's in the 2000 track for awhile to come.

I'm sorry they recanted since I went and did the work and now I didn't have to - at least least not as quickly.

Hopefully the market will put a higher premium on MCSE 2000 than MCSE 4.0 to make worth my while.

Essentially this is a marketing move. Many MS Partners need x amount of MSCE's. To yank away their certification would have played havoc in the channel.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 anonymous USA

I think MS realized that they are becoming very unpopular among it users / supporters. Only 47,000 persons to support the new system and kick out the old folks (NT 4.0)?? That was a wrong decision and it is good that they have realized that before it was too late

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Bob Lyle, Minnesota

What will happen to the people who have updated their skills? Since Microsoft recognizes the importance of the market place in rescinding its MCSE-NT retirement position. Will we be designated as both NT and W2K MCSEs’?
I would hope so because I don't think potential clients will have the mindset that NT expertise is implied by the W2K certification. I would certainly want them to know that I have both skill sets. I do agree with Microsoft's "new" position that there is still economic value in holding the NT certification. I hope that I can continue to derive this "old" value as I add "new" value to my certification status. I would add, that from an economic perspective, there is far more value in holding both titles than by holding either one individually. Now that Microsoft recognizes this fact, I hope they will reflect it by designating both titles to those who have upgraded their skills from NT to 2K.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Max Vallejo

Master Degrees, Ph.D's, B.A. and B.S.
degrees are not retired. MCSE's should
not be retired. Serious professsionals
do not stop learning and business knows that. Way to go Microsoft.

Sat, Oct 13, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I am amazed at comments here leaning toward being unhappy that this has happened and calling those that are happy about it - slackers, etc. I image they are not working in the real IT world (within a very large to global corporation). Most corps are not ready for W2K or fully converted. When an existing corp's MS systems are NT4 and need to be supported by the highly skilled - will they look at newly W2k MCSE's or NT4? hmm it's a very simple question. I am not knocking W2k, but NT4 is NOT out in the pasture yet - at least in the real world environment! Those that don't live it have shown it here in their comments.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This move displays no integrity whatsoever. All the slackers, braindumpers, and paper tigers are cheering today. No I haven't taken a single 2000 exam yet but I planned to get most of it done by the end of the year. All fields require an upgrade of their vertifications periodically, but only M$ changes the rules as it fits their own plans leading us along by the nose.
Make a plan and stick with it! In this job market, it would've been nice to have a way to differentiate those who are willing to put out the extra effort and study hard to keep their skills updated. Once again, M$ has not ceased to amaze me.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 DionHurst Houston, TX

I appreciate the fact that MS is not walking around with Blinders on! I paid good money for my training, and worked very hard to get it. I did not like the fact that the enormous amount of money, that I am still paying for, would have to be in vain. I am going to upgrade, but I did not want to do it immediately!

I have a full time job, wife, 2yr old daughter, and I spend 3+ hours a day traveling to and from work.

Time to study is slim!

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Bamba Cisse Anonymous

I am not suprised. I am supporting windows nt and 2000 and I get far more Nt calls than 2000 calls. It is not because Nt is more fragile, but rather, there are more Companies running it. Lots of companies are skeptical to migrate because of the heavy administration involved in windows 2000. Glad we are still alive.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

The NT4 cert should definately be retired. Half or more are "paper" MCSEs with no real experience. MS needs to "thin the herd".

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Ken San Francisco MCT

OK!!! Now have both MCSEs. BIG QUESTION??? How many W2k MCSEs are also MCT? See if they'll release that number for us trainers. Thanks.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Mike NYC

Microsoft has obviously faced the reality that NT 4.0 is a good system with a large user base that isn't going to upgrade just because Microsoft says, "Oh by the way...". Many companies are still installing NT 4.0, with no desire to go to 2000. The next reality Microsoft has to face is that people still need to BECOME NT 4.0 certified and bring back the tests.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

To all those that say the 47,000 win2k mcses are paper mcses, you are wrong. Some of us have 10 to 30 years experience in IT and were required to upgrade to stay current for our position or required by server or software vendors to stay current.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

To all those that say the 47,000 win2k mcses are paper mcses, you are wrong. Some of us have 10 to 30 years experience in IT and were required to upgrade to stay current for our position or required by server or software vendors to stay current.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Cynthia Georgia

Great news! I was so angry with MS for making the decision to decertify existing MCSE's. Especially since I had just acquired my MSCE+I status at the time when the job market was getting really bad. I was already unemployed and it was hard breaking into the IT field so I took another job. Dissappointed that I did all that studying and paid all that money for it to go up in smoke. I vowed never to let MS rape me again and had no intention on taking anything beyond the Accelerated exam. If I failed then so be it! Thanks, Bill Gates. You are compassionate afterall and not the money -hungry *^*$@! everyone said you were!!!!!!!!

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 comblues Who Knows

Too bad, I just finished my CCIE Written and have achieved my CCDP/CCNP CCNA/CCDA plus a host of CSE Certs.

Now my path is set and M$ is now a memory and my opinion can be neutral as for a desktop/backoffice OS.

After all, I'm an MCSE+I who can compare the Pro's and Cons of each competing OS.

Too bad you waited all year point five.

I've turned my cheek to you as have hundred's of thousands of others.

Tell that to the investors.

I said this 1.5 years ago.

We the IT Staffers call the shots -

Not U, the vendor.

We create the need - the vendor provides a solution.

Artificial need is well - Artificial.

That's All.

Comblues

Team[o/R]

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous TX

A lot of people are posting that this has devalued the MCSE because it allows people to keep a certification even if they have not "kept current". Re-read the article, people. This change will not kill the "exclusivity" of the MCSE. It expands it. There will be two MCSE's. One for 4.0, which will be designated as such, and one for w2k. Thus, the people straight out of school with only the w2k certification will not hold BOTH version certifications...I think keeping recognition of the veteran MCSE's is quite well warranted, and devalues a mere w2k certification over a individual who has BOTH 4.0 and w2k certs.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

There are approx 125,000 to 150,000 4.0 MCSE people

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Tony Midlands

This news has made my week.
I worked hard for my certification, (before the boot camps and paper MCSE's appeared on the scene).
I am working equally hard towards the 2K MCSE.
I work all over the country and can confirm that Win2K and NT4 will have to co-exist for a long time yet.
No one, not even the "holy software saint Billy Gates, has the right to deny me the claim to MCSE accreditation.
I earned it, nobody gave it to me.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Mark Minneapolis

Personally, I hoped that being one of the elite 47,000 MCSEs in W2K (as opposed to one of the 600,000+ "paper" NT4 MCSEs) would help me approach the salary that every survey says a MCSE should be earning, but that I have been 25-40% short of ever since becoming a MCSE in 1998.
Maybe these certifications don't mean as much to employers as Microsoft would have us think. Now that there will be (literally) millions of us by early next year, I guess we'll never know.......

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

MICROSHAFT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS ALL PR SMOKE AND MIRRORS
THESE CLOWNS OUTTA BE SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP WASTING YOUR TIME __GO RHCE

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Ewin Toronto, Canada

Looks like M$ like to always surprise the industry. I've anticipated this news though.
Thanks anyways for letting my NT MCSE
badge intact. True true true...where I work right now, it will be at least 2 yrs more before we'll completely migrate to W2K Pro & Server.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

great! now all us MCSE's can forget microshaft and concentrate on Linux!!!

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Excellent news, there are more people out there that have enough experience in both NT 4 and W2k. Just because a certification expires doesn't mean that the person who has that certification doesn't know what he or she is doing in W2K. I only have my MCSE in NT 4, but I have been working with W2K servers and clients for the past 8 months and all though there are many differences between the both of them, I personally don't feel that I should waist hours of my time studying to get my cert in W2K to get accepted for a position in a company who is utilizing W2K just because my Cert in NT 4 has expired.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 mike, mcse Anonymous

good move for microsoft, though working on 2000 cert, was very concerned with xp comming out if microsoft would "de-certify" 2000 users next before bulk of industry users even move to 2000

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Let's face it, MS cert programs have always been "paper" programs. I have NT4 MCSE and am completing W2K. But, these certs do nothing to prove ones ability to study for and pass the tests. If people want "real" experience, they need to go to a college or tech school and get some credentials. Stop feeding your bucks into these "vendor" training schools. Once you get a good basic tech education, you'll find that you can pass these vendor certs pretty much on you own.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous TX

Well, I am glad that the NT MCSE is still good. Many companies still aren't looking at retiring all of their NT systems...just demoting them to utility services. However, before we all rise to thank Microsoft for listening to us, remember that the number of certified support persons in the workforce is a MARKETING BOOST for Brother Bill and the Microserfs. Novell made no bones about this when they began the CNA, CNE, MCNE and CNI certifications. The more certified individuals in the workforce to support your product, the more attractive your product becomes to your customers who will need that expertise to take full advantage of your product. So, the fact that there are less than 50,000 w2k MCSE's makes it more difficult to sell w2k and xp in the market, on top of the new restrictions on licensing. This was Microsoft, as always, acting in Microsoft's best marketing interests. Now they can still say that there are over 'x' hundred thousand MCSE's for their products. That being said, though, I am grateful. Yes, I have study material for the MCSE, but I have very little time as a one-man-IS-department with several projects in the works and no spare machines at work or at home that will run w2k...makes it very difficult to prepare for the exams. Still, gotta get w2k accel. out of the way, somehow. But I am grateful that I have more room for scheduling.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Alan Thunder Bay

Hey Chad - Honolulu; Not everyone has the bucks to shell out for a new OS or NOS every couple of years. It took us a few years to build what is now a fine tuned NT4 network. Management is not ready to go through the growing pains just yet.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Kurt Connecticut

good, w2k test passers will spend more time memorizing scenarios than actually implementing them anyway. There is more to a daily tech effort than Microsoft. Especially when you see two operating systems roar overhead with little corporate buy-in. Those who pursue certifications to KEEP a job are probably the majority, but those who pursue them as just another title to claim on a resume are a danger to the industry and dilute the true technoids. With the demand for 2000 and XP support soft in relation to the cert effort, and the time lag from certification to corporate implementation, test passers will forget; hardcores will skillfully execute with or without the cert.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 anonymous Anonymous

Looks like there is a lot of w2k mcse that have only that cert. so now they are feeling weak because soon there will be a lot of mcses on both NT4 and 2000, that is why I think they are complayning.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 G London,England

Very good news, I have registered for my win2k accelerated exam due to the need to do this by the end of the year, but now I will work for my win2k MCSE as well as keeping my NT 4.0 MCSE.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Absolutely deplorable and completely unaccpetable.

The only people who would be satisfied to see this move are the technically weak individuals who were certified via brain dumps.

Being an MCSE means you are a leader in technology and it is your responsibility to keep up with technology.

Anyone who has had the courage to go with change will tell you Windows 2000 is 10x better suited for any network with more than 10 users. Shying away from doing what MCSE's are counted on to do - lead company's into the future with better technology, is a sign of weakness on the part of the NT 4 MCSE, and a sign of weakness on the part of Microsoft to allow them to do so.

This only serves to weaken the entire program's creditibility.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think it is great because of all of those who have become MCSE on WINNT and 2000 will have better stature that with just one or the other.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Nick Liverpool

Great ! Relatively inexperienced MCSEs NT4 like myself had to work damned hard to attain certification, and felt devalued by the former ms decision to retire us and replace us. NT4 will remain in the workplace for a while yet despite ms arrogance in retiring support ! I will take my accelerator at the end of this year anyhow as I am now in a 2k/NT4 environment and need to know both so... wish me luck.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Virginia Beach

It is just a relief, now I don't have to rush to upgrade my 4.0 cert. I really want to learn as much as can so that I am not labeled a paper mcse. Also I support many companies that are still exclusivly NT 4.0 shops.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This is great because now the NT4 certied is not gonna be under those that only have the W2K cert. without any experience with this OS.
So now is good to be an MCSE on NT4 & W2K.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Montalvo Harris Detroit,MI

I think this news is great. The threat of losing your certification because Microsoft like to come out with new operating systems every year does not mean that the old system is being supported. We have just begun to have NT 4.0 running well for companies and WIN2K can be a bitch if you guys know what I mean. There are always alot of bugs with Microsoft software that takes time to fix. You have companies that are mutilmillion dollar companies that are still using WIN95 for god sakes. Good move Mr. Bill Gates for thinking about the thousands of creditials of you would have destroyed.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I'm talking to an attorney. I was told that this was expiring. I gave up time and money to become unique in my certification. They lied, clear and simple.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Canada Anonymous

47,000 MCSE's?? I wonder how many of them are 'paper'?. I personally know MCSE's who have the cert and will openly admit they really shouldn't. They all got it as part of another 'tech program'. There are folks out there gifted with the talent to be able to study and pass exams, but to apply that knowledge is a total different ball game. There is a difference btwn, QUALIFIED & CERTIFIED, the problem lies in HR depts. that don't know the differece, because it's the same people that will hire a netadmin one day, and a secretary the next, how are they qualified to judge/grade?

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 MCSEMAN Ohio

I read on the CNN site today that a MS person said that there were roughly 9 million MCSE 4.0 worldwide.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Tom Anonymous

For CHAD BAAA HUMBUG we never wanted any special consideration, we wanted fairness. MS should of kept the old policy and all of this is for not. When you work for a multi-nantional who says NT4 is their OS for the near future, a MSCE W2K is not much help. I will upgrade when I need to. So get off you high horse.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Goose PA

I am happy to hear this.
My Company has 35 NT 4.0 servers and about 500 NT 4.0 workstations. Right now they aren't even talking about moving to 2000. When we hire someone, we're looking for the NT MCSE.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Craig Anonymous

This is excellent news since I had no plans to upgrade my certification to NT2K. I feel my efforts are not better served toward Cisco certification where the market is less saturated.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

glad to hear it, i worked hard to get my nt4 mcse. i work in a nt4.0 shop and have no plans yet to go to w2k. I was going to try to sell my boss on linux if i had to keep chasing certifications.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Brian DC

technology is constantly changing however not all companies have the need, desire, or money to change each time a "new and improved" product comes out. Not everyone wants or needs to be the one who has the newest toy on the block.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Michael Brisbane Australia

Fantastic news for me. I only achieved certification in Nov 2000 & didn't get an IT job (NT4 Network) until June 2001. This decision allows me to stay current, continue to learn & study. When the time is right I will be able to apply for a more advanced job with a current certification. Thanks MS.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Jeff Anonymous

Does this mean I can finish my NT4 exams again and become MCSE NT4 aswell?? jeff (MCSE 2K)

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Amalta South Afirica

I'm really relieved about this decision. Great news !!!

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 AngryDude Europe

Well, I personally don't give a shit anymore. M$ has pissed me off so thoroughly that I am now **giving** away pirated and hacked WinXP Pro Corp. Editions to any client who asks for them. Up yours, MS!

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Nick London

This is welcome news.As a current NT4
mcse I was not really worried about upgrading to 2K.I was very dispondant about the whole 2K certification upgrade
process, having spent loads of my own money on obtaining my mcse in the first place.I did not see how an organisation has the right to de-certify you as NT4 mcse's are still in demand.Once a qualification has been earned in certification process how can any organisation suddenly turn round and strip you of it.I used to be "a microsoft man " now I see them as something less than perfect.As for certification who needs their mcse as there are loads of other certifications you can obtain which have market demand and long standing credibility.Who will knock microsoft off their high horse.Its long overdue.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 MCT USA

I was MS certified in 1995. Do not expect this to be true. Less than 50% of what MS certification staffers say is truth. MS will tell you that its not true unless its on their website. Then MS will change the website or say the website is wrong. If you are calling or emailing the MS certification staff expect 80% bad information. I asked a simple question several times by email and calling, "Will this XX certification exam expire on YY date?". Answers included "It expired already", "It will expire this year", "It will expire next year", "You dont need that exam cuz you're an MCSE", "You're not an MCSE and this is the worng exam for you", "Check the website", and "The website is wrong, it will expire in two months".

Unlike other (well managed) certification programs you are not in partnership with MS, you are only considered as a number that generates revenue. Therefore, the goal IS to decertify people. This is how the certification department stays such a high profit center for MS. This the industrys most valued certification program is the industrys worst run. DO NOT trust Larry, Moe, Curly, or McSweeney they know little of how to run a certification program.

Tips:
Check their website often and hope that the information is valid.
Calling and emailing MS certification staff is a 100% waste of your time.
Finish the program fast before they can make changes.
The bottom line is your on-line MS transcript - they will change it and you will live with it.

Fri, Oct 12, 2001 Species USA

I am one exam away from becoming a MCSE in W2K. I think the decision is a good one, but I have a few complaints. It was a good thing not to retire the MCSE NT4 (It gives me hope that MCSE W2K will stick around also!). I’m not a MCSE in NT4 and this is why I think in the current form, the decision is unfair: I believe that all MCSE NT4’s should be able to keep there certifications, but I should also have the option of the certification as well. Several posts talk about being able to say that you are NT4 and W2K certified is a plus and that employers will look for what is in their own environment. I tend to believe that this is true, and that I have been shut out from the NT4 track. If someone is a MCSE in NT4 and they can take an upgrade test to be a W2K MCSE, it is only logical that a MCSE in W2K should be able to take a single test to be certified in NT4. If both certifications are still valid, this makes sense. I have used NT4 for many more years than I have W2K and I feel that I should be able to show that I know my stuff not only in W2K, but also NT4. I even started to study for MCSE NT4 a few years back (I still have the books!), but after hearing about W2K, I was not going to waste my time and money on a certification that was to be retired a year later. If they are going to keep both versions of the certification around, they need to offer them both!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 B Europe

Dumb decision if true. Why did I go through all the hassle of geting myself recertified then? Companies that don not migrate to 2K are exposing themselves to the problem of NT4 being EOL anyway...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very Good news indeed !!
I obtained my MCSE Cert approx. 2years ago and was very diligent in doing so. the question remains is how many offices still use the NT 4.0 platform.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous California

I believe that Microsoft never had any intention of retiring NT 4 at the end of this year.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 David Perth , WesternAustralia

I work as the IT administrator an NT 4 network with 5 locations and before that - Network Manager on a win2k network. I am certified in NT4 and will when I have time , do the w2k track ( by choice - if I want to ) . All the w2k whingers saying that their MCSE is worthless because the NT 4 track MCSE's are not being decertified " get a life" . I earned my MCSE and have years of experiance running win2k and NT 4 networks and believe there are many like me - don't say your worthless because Microsoft saw the light and is letting me keep my MCSE - Prove yourselves at the "craft" of Networking like I have had to do , and stop complaining !
Microsoft , well done I congratulate and thank you.
David

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 stephen kuwait

once a person has gained knowledge that knowledge does not expire. a college degree remains valid 40 years later even though the courses are long outdated. if you have the experience then the certs are secondary. by carrying a qualifier along with the mcse you have instantly told companies what your cert is in. there is a lot of talk about getting away from paper mcse's but don't rush to do it at the exspense of legit mcse nt 4.0 guys.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very good news. I am proud of my NT 4.0 MCSE certification. I like to see my certificate hanging on my wall. Just like a Degree or Diploma from a college, the cert for NT 4.0 MCSE should never be retired.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 stephen kuwait

Good idea. I realize that it has been some time since the announcement that they would retire the cert and those of us with NT 4.0 certs have had time to recert, but since most of us still admin networks that are using NT 4.0 it does not make sense to say that we no longer are MCSE's. By specifying MCSE 4.0 or 2K you have right away identified what the person's knowledge is on. If I went and got my MCSE 2K it would mainly be a paper cert and that is not what we want. Right ???

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MCSE_WinNT4 New York, New York City

To make my understanding simple is the 70-240 Win2K Accelerated Exam has been extended to May 1st 2002.
If this is true then its a wonderful news because I am working so hard for this exam and I don't have enough time.
Thank you.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Keri Anonymous

It's good news for people that are already NT 4.0 certified but what about the people that are cramming for the Windows 2000 Accelerated exam? I think that Microsoft should extend the deadline for that exam. Not everybody has tons of freetime to study.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Nice to know I wasted my time...MCSE isn't worth the paper it's printed on with NT4.0 still out there. All this talk of bringing validity back to the certification after the NT 4.0 "Paper Kiddies", it was all smoke and mirrors. Microsoft doesn't give a damn about the individuals who worked for their certifcation. If you honestly passed the NT 4, you'll have your 2000 by now. If not, maybe it's time to look into a new industry or find a manager position somewhere. You easily tell how much concern MS has for it's professionals. We get a card and a pin. When I received my Nortel cert, I got a luggage bag. A cheap luggage bag, but about 6000 fold more that good ole Bill spent on all the 2000 MCSE's combined.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jeremy Portland

WHAT WAS THE POINT??? Why did I put up with SEVEN tests that were so grueling they bordered on insanity? You know WHY there are only 47,000? because the tests were the "real deal" not the cakewalk that NT4 was. It seperated out the "paper MCSE" and flushed it. Now instead of being in a group of 47,000 that worked 'till thier eyes bled, we all get planted in the "1 million" number. Who is going to put on a resume that the MSCE they have is only for 4.0? NOBODY. That makes us all the same and makes the cert just as weak as it was two years ago. I obtained W2K on Oct 8, and had two whole days to celebrate before they changed the rules again. It's like playing tag with a spoiled 5 yr. old. Can I have the THOUSANDS of dollars in money and hours spent BACK? I think not.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rick AZ

I think Microsoft was hearing LAW SUIT from those who spent $$$ on the NT cert and suddenly were looking at doing it all over. Law suit may be talking here.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 lmcgrath montreal

Wonderful news. Microsoft has just enhanced my career. Even if I had completed the MCSE W2k certification by now, my bosses were losing respect for this certification process, because the de-certification in their opinion happens too frequently. And my company has only been using NT 4 for 18 months. With the Total cost of Ownership factored in, we are not ready to upgrade to W2k. My expertise on NT 4 is still required. To the selfish people who say ''its a bad idea''. Let me remind you that a lot of IT profesionnals, because of the Terroist attack of Sept. 11.2001 will be losing their jobs and they will be plenty busy looking for a new one. These people will not have the time or money for re-certification. Microsoft has done every one a great service. After all, all the MCP`s and MCSE`s are Microsoft ambassadors. We are the strongest voice for their product.
The only people who seem to have time and money for certification and recertification of the recertification is Chad from Honolulu and the IT Professionals who work for Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MCSE KY

Good decision! As a consultant for a MS solution provider, I see more NT 4 networks than 2K. Still appears to be a fear out there about migration. Those complaining more than likely are 2K "paper" MCSEs upset that 4.0 MCSEs will retain a hard earned certification as long as the OS is in production. MCSE (4.0 and 2K) in KY

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Honey Boy Santa Clara

Certifications is a business in itself...Microsoft is making a killing at it. I'm tired of them coming up with new stuff just so they can make us be certified for it. I'm sick and tired of them retiring tests so we can take new ones.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I worked for several years to finally get my MCSE (4.0) in Feb 2000, while working fulltime in IT, only to find out that it would be gone as of Dec 01 - so this is great news. The fact is I would have let it run out because working fulltime as a Director of IT, I would not be able to spend the time needed to cram for the accelerated exam, plus two electives to upgrade to 2K. I have not seen a big rush for companies to deploy 2K yet - too complicated for the cost of the overhead needed, especially for small companies. This is good news, though. **Note for Chad, it must be nice to have the time to keep up with the changes Microsoft dishes out... do you work?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

how many mcse's are in Malaysia, and how many female and male? are this mean that MCSE 4.0 must take 70-240 by end of this year and how about other 3 paper? I think this is a good news because i still need to pay my credit card for the nt 4.0 year 2000.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous


Get RHCE Instead!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Keith Dallas

It is one thing the hold the monopoly on desktop O/S but to decide the fate of IT personnel is a crime. Microsoft has released E.O.L for all operating systems including Win2k. So corporations are expected to upgrade to the resource hogging XP. Bill just outdid himself. If Novell and Linux get ther act together, present more user friendly GUI and make the transition from Windows to Novell or Linux a smooth one like running a service pack or upgrade, so end users dont even see the change , then I think Bill Gates will respect people more and quit this bull crap.He needs to take his face out of whatever he is is 'sniffing" so he can see what the industry is cooking. Whoever forced him to take his medication deserves a raise.....to owner.... of Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Regarding certification........it is never 'meaningless'...........just because xp comes out etc doesn't mean shit.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Kevin Concord, CA

With MS releasing OSes to frequently and their new lcensing of the XP products, it is good news that Microsoft is listening on this front. Now if we can get the OS and Office sides of the company to listen to the licensing woes that XP has brought and do something about it too. Maybe we can get them to meet business' needs instead of trying to tell us that we need their fancy new OS that meets some need we don't really need.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 mcsent4 sydney

YEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Life moves on baby

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Round Rock, TX

I agree with Microsoft's decision -- I'm not even MCSE since my clients don't require it BUT I've taken the Core 4.0 tests and have been studying to be Win2K MCSE Certified. Still, those who are only taking MCSE 2000 certification courses and testing (and who are only familiar with just the 2000 platform) shouldn't be working on NT 4.0 machines if they're posing to be "experts" with it -- there are obvious differences since Windows NT 4.0 doesn't hold your hand as much as Windows 2000 does in addition to all of the other obvious differences. I think that if you're NT 4.0 certified, Microsoft should show it and the same goes for MCSE 2000. Having the certification in either (or both) is great to have but experience obviously counts more.

This is the way it should be -- those who are upset since they feel the older (NT 4.0) tests should expire appear to be the ones who busted their butts studying for (and paying for) MCSE 2000? That's something we all still have to do regardless if we have MCSE NT 4.0 or not since we should all still aim to be as technically knowledgeable as possible with all platforms.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ozwald Texas

Quite Frankly, If you passed the exam, you deserve the credit, although... it may be meaningless soon. =P

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MCSE ??? Anonymous

Time to start studying for the XP tests.. Soon there will be an MCSE XP??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

TO ALL MCSE OUT THERE:

DON'T FULL YOURSELFS!

MICROSOFT IS JUST ON THE DEFENSIVE FOR NOW.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very good idea to keep the MCSE in tracks. I work in a mulit OS enviroment with both NT 4.0 and Win2K. Even though I'm still working on my Win2K Certification My experience in NT4.0 has been very useful.
Again Great Idea...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This the worst move Microsoft could have made! The whole idea of the MCSE 4.0 track getting cut off and the 2000 tests being harder gace hope to the idea that the cert would regain some strength and all of these "PAPER!" MCSEs would be weeded out. The people who cried the loudest are of course these PAPER people! Microsoft should make the tests 10x harder then the 2000 tests so that only the best with pass. YES, sound something like Cisco. If Microsoft could ever make the tests hard enough maybe MCSEs could get the same respect as CCIEs!!! And yes I have my MCSE+I and my MCSE on 2000, accelerated test was cake!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Sunny Toronto

It's still won't help the one who is try to get into the field. It's a hard hard world out there and without companies who takes entry MCSE'er, or where company wants a minimum of two years of experience minimum, I am directing my attention to some other operating systems.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 leon pearland,tx

this is good news to me because some of us need more time to wholly get into the mcse windows 2000 track and pass those exams.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anthony Miami

It's funny to hear all of the people who were rushing to get the W2K mcse complaining. You're the one's rushing to believe everything MS tells you. XP cert, 4.0 cert, 2000 cert. Every piece of crap MS throws at you. What next? I'm simply a MCP, I know enough about the OS, and good enough at my job that I don't need some crappy piece of paper to prove it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jim Pennsylvania

While reading through these comments, I wonder if folks aren't a little too caught up in the certification game as a whole. If the truth be told, many employers don't know an MCSE from a basic MCP anyway. They don't really care that much. It's been my experience that "results," that is, doing a good job and knowing what the hell you're doing, count a lot more than any certificate. In the real world, that "results" record is transmitted by references, not by acronyms. The certs are good to get--the preparation forces a certain intensity--and it's a satisfying experience once you've passed a test--it's fun, in other words. But like getting an undergraduate degree--let's face it--MCSE certification will never compare to several years in the trenches. Why are so many of you shocked that this MCSE thing is sort of a game? You're just now realizing this?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tom Ohio

This is fantastic news! I spent a lot of money,out of my own pocket, to take the NT 4.0 classes . I then took the time to get the experience rather than just go take the tests and become a "paper" MCSE. It was very disconcerting to find that Microsoft was going to de-certify me after I had worked so hard to get certified.

To CHAD in HONOLULU: I am willing to bet that most of us ARE getting certified in 2k. Microsoft's position was unreasonable. Most companies are just NOW planning their moves over to 2k. They didn't have the money after all the Y2K upgrades to even comtemplate a migration, not to mention that everyone usually waits at least a year to see how many problems the new OS has. To think that companies are going to upgrade (and I use that term loosely) to new operating systems as fast as Microsoft pumps them out is ludicrous. NT 4.0 will be around a while longer. I still run into machines with Windows for Workgroups and NT 3.51 on them even today!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Osama Saudi Arabia

Funny, as if everybody knows whether 47,000 is a lot or a little.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

That's the first decent thing they have done for MCSE's in a long time. They won't allow me a shot at the upgrade exam because my desktop certification is 95 instead of workstation. So I'm not going to re-certify in all those exams anyway.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tarry Warner Robins,Ga

I'm glad they recended the decision. I think mcse's certified in win nt should be able to keep their certification. That way componany's that still use win nt will have professionals that know nt.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Whaaaaa! What a bunch of crybabies. When the company I work for upgraded from Office 97 to Office 2000, what additional functionality did our users really gain? None! Yet MS is gouging us for more $$$ for license fees and maintenance agreements. The company decided to let all current maintenance agreements with MS expire and all our NT4 servers and workstations (over 1500) will remain as such for the next 3 years. If and when they decide to go to W2k or XP (or Novell or Linux or whatever they decide) I'll certify for that platform then. Paper MCSE's don't bother me. My college degrees coupled with my NT4 certification keep them at bay. We decide what we need and when... not Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Zentar Nebula Star Field 1

WoW, I do not have to spend the rest of the year chasing bill gates butt.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

ok, that's great news. But What about the ones that would like to have the MCSE in NT4 title???????

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

hmmmm.....now I think I will upgrade from DOS to Windows. Does anyone have any Windows 86 on 5 1/4 inch floppy's

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 James Canberra, Australia

Good News. Changing the name to "MCSE on xxxx" will allow employers to see instantly what your level of certification is without robbing people of a certification they have worked hard to achive. As a number of others stated, the NT4 MCSE will remain relevent for a long time to come. This will make no difference to my plans/timescale for upgrading to Win2K, I will just look forward to being able to say I am an MCSE on both the NT4 track and the Win2K track.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brian Denver

What a bunch of Falkers. My company has spend a lot of money to comply with Microsoft's retirement. Only 45 days before the deadline they pull this out. Having gotten my 2K MSCE 1 week ago I feel that Microsoft pissed on me.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Joe Texas

This is great news for ALL involved. All meaning companies hiring MCSE's. Now they will know w/o having to ask what your qualifications are. Besides, this gives us all an oportunity to say we have both, not just I'm MCSE certified. I do wish they would create new logos for both.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 jimblob Anonymous

there were around 180k NT4 MCSEs a year ago.
There are 47k who chose to upgrade. What product do you think the 140k who didn't upgrade were going to upgrade to after microsoft stiffed them? win2k?
Why not go for something with a lower TCO? Something that requires expert knowledge and is unlikely to become obsoleted for the sake of extra profit. Now if only there were a product like that available.....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Leon Wichita

I think it is good news for everyone the certification can be a trap if the OS keeps chaging it makes you wonder if part of the incentive for the companies is to force the upgrade or loose certification issue to keep the training classes full of people who will not have time to get their real work because they are always working and studying in an effort to stay certified. I am a 25 year veteran of the Computing industry with certifications from multiple vendors and some of them require contant continuing ed requirements for people who may not even have exposure at their work sites.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mike Ohio

From a personal view, I see this as a good move on M$'s part. Like many, I invested considerable time and money into my MCSE certification. I work in an NT4/UNIX environment. To the complainers about "Paper MCSE's", what would you call someone that completed the W2K track and wasn't working in that environment? And I wonder how many of the 47K currently W2K certified MCSE's fit in that category? From what I've read in the way of comments so far, it would appear that there are quite a few, or they wouldn't be complaining about having upgraded for nothing. Just my thoughts.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fanny kanku Chicago/USA

I was wondering if my college degree will be retired one day. It was insane to decertify something that we worked hard to get. We spent money and energy to be where we are now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Karl Phoenix

I am very dissappointed with this extension. Microsoft WIN2k track was suppossed to eliminate the book cert. Now all those book cert people will have extra time to claim the MCSE title and ruin it for the rest of us.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fanny kanku Chicago/USA

I was wondering if my college degree will be retired one day. It was insane to decertify something that we worked hard to get. We spent money and energy to be where we are now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tim Columbus, Ohio, USA

The key part of the reason for the above article is this: "Microsoft finally decided to reexamine its decertification
policy. "We shouldn't be the ones calling the shots; we should let the
market decide that." "
NT4 is going to be around a while because it still works. I agree that we must change as technology changes, however, changing our systems for the sake of having the 'latest and greatest' may not be the wisest of moves. I applaud MS for its understanding of market demands, and its recognition of the value of the MCSE certification.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news!! Sounds like some of these W2K certified candidates are bummed because they jumped at it the issue when "forced" to; the opposite outcome finally prevailed! NT4.0 is just as important to the industry as W2K. I will still pursue my W2K core, but with less pressure.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Mt. Laurel, NJ

I imagine that all 4.0 certified folks are happy. I notice, from the comments, that the 2K people think they are smarter & better, and if you aren't 2K certified, you should be. Not ALL of us have the time and money to get certified for every new MS OS.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Sean CT

This is great news... for those who are already certified in W2k... Congrats but those of us who are still using NT4 and are the only one to maintain our company's network, it is tough to study and prep for something we have limited exposure too... I do plan to upgrade but a HUGE load has been lifted off my shoulders with the 12/31/01 deadline looming!!! Way to go MS!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Sean CT

This is great news... for those who are already certified in W2k... Congrats but those of us who are still using NT4 and are the only one to maintain our company's network, it is tough to study and prep for something we have limited exposure too... I do plan to upgrade but a HUGE load has been lifted off my shoulders with the 12/31/01 deadline looming!!! Way to go MS!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jim Pennsylvania

Though Microsoft was arrogant in their move to "retire" the NT 4 MCSE, this new stance ultimately makes more sense. Like many, I am running a mixed server environment (NT 4 and W2K). Some of those servers will not be upgraded for a good while. NT 4 Server runs very well, under the right conditions, for some basic things, e.g., simple file servers. The current announcement is really somewhat amusing; it's not as if I didn't plan to list both MCSE certification levels on my resume in any case, one right above the other. On a resume, that information will show both the length of time one has spent in the industry, and an ambition to keep abreast of the MS operating systems (for what it's worth). The initial "retirement" announcement from Redmond did make me resolve that I will be moving further toward the support of UNIX flavors, which I have always considered the OS of the adults and the "big dogs" anyway. MS acts like a self-important teenager, who has somewhat accidently become successful.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 KI Mumbai or Bombay.

Good, its the right thing to do - finally MS will see a change in people's attitude toward going for certification, for how good is it to go thru all that effort and giving up personal life, just to realise in a couple of years that it was neither worth the money or the time spend. Hope MS does not change its music anymore. In fact they should mail couple of vouchers to everyone certified in NT 4.0 for pain and suffering.

One more piss off from MS and LINUX will be next in my agenda. So Bill I hope you hear this lound and clear from a very disgruntal customer - Also you should stop publishing those Brain Dumps and Red Cram Books to make the certification process more legitimate - ya ya I know you are going to refuse all of your wrong doings.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chris UK

Well, thanks a lot - but is bill gates going to refund the £1500 I have just paid for my upgrade course??!! Seriously though it is good news as we can now be recognised officially as having done both o/s's

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brandy Las Vegas

I think it's great that Microsoft decided to let it stand. I just got my cert last year also. Not everyone is going to upgrade to 2000 for quite some time and what would they have done.

I think everyone should still try to move forward and certify on 2000 but I don't think you should lose the certification you worked so hard for just because Microsoft wants to push a new OS.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 KI Mumbai or Bombay.

Good, its the right thing to do - finally MS will see a change in people's attitude toward going for certification, for how good is it to go thru all that effort and giving up personal life, just to realise in a couple of years that it was neither worth the money or the time spend. Hope MS does not change its music anymore. In fact they should mail couple of vouchers to everyone certified in NT 4.0 for pain and suffering.

One more piss off from MS and LINUX will be next in my agenda. So Bill I hope you hear this lound and clear from a very disgruntal customer - Also you should stop publishing those Brain Dumps and Red Cram Books to make the certification process more legitimate - ya ya I know you are going to refuse all of your wrong doings.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Gosh, now I feel bad about all the mean things I said about Microsoft...NAAA!! I still won't upgrade and never will. I'm working on Cisco and Red Hat Linux certs now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Trying to keep an orderly family life, staying on track with your current cert goals and keeping up with the Microsoft os release curve and the ensuing cert tracks is a little daunting. Thanks for the breathing space! Many of my cronies were dropping mcse training entirely and persuing platform non specific training out of disgust of this ratrace. This goes a long way to keeping the faith. Thanks Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Pims Chesterfield

Microsoft faces a very complex situation. Its European customers are less confident in its products and are looking more into cheaper or free OS like Linux. Therefore the demand for certification is slower because the Systems Engineer use their time to learn the other OS. Existing MCSE are also challenged by the speed of the release of new OS. Microsoft releases so fast 2000 and now XP, that MCSE are wondering the need to get certified on 2000 when customers start asking for XP.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tom Charleston, SC

I was preparing a Lawsuite to incur an injunction of this decsrtification and now I do not have to. I feel it is wrong to take something like that from someone who worked hard to achieve it. They dont expire Bachlors and masters degrees so why MCSE's., One Smart move I have been preaching for years.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MCSE2K PA

This is not a good thing to all of us that took the time to upgrade our exams. The rest of you shuld have too..

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 11/10/01 Germany

I like these news, The company where I am working for, have just moved from other OS's to NT 4.0. I have until now only my mcse for NT 4.0. Therfore I am very glad not only that I had to learn to much, but also that I can secure my job. Although, in this IT Branch we have to learn continuosly.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Michael San Francisco

So are they planning to revise the ID cards in anyway so it will show your current status. The reason I am asking is I am a WinNT MCSE and also have my Win2K MCP, but the card only states MCP, MCSE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Microsoft faces reality - period. Don't think because Microsoft was going to retire the NT track that Industry would not still recognize those certifications where that skill set was needed.

At the same time, those who sit on their certification and do not continue their education on 2000 or other certification areas (whether or not they actually get certified) will receive their due as the technical world evolves and they find themselves without the skills to perform in this industry.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 george Anonymous

This is good news very good news its like getting a degree and then say after a certain time you will be decertified.
I worked hard to get the mcse in Nt I was so upset that they were going to take it away, but I will still take the 2000 track at my own pace. that will look cool nt 4 and 2000.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 GARY Anonymous

The IT field took such a hit with the downturn in the economy most companies can't afford an upgrade.I am also one of many newly unemployed MCSE's....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Luke Portland

I think it's great. Just because a piece of software isn't used widely anymore doesn't mean that the information about the software falls out of my head. How can you really be decertified?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jeb AZ

I agree fully with MS on lifting the expiration. More than half of us have been putting it off because of XP, and even though that's been resolved, there's still not enough 2K in the workplace @ the server level to warrant it for most. The only clients that I work with that use 2K are the new and small ones. NT has a few good years left in.

Besides, everyone worried about "PAPER TIGERS" and that sort of thing - newsflash: You should already have experience in this industry, especially if you're complaining about the NT track expiring. I always thought the term paper tiger referred to the ones who had no experience as well as memorized answers instead of learning the product... correct me if I am mistaken...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

For those who have MCSE2K, ask yourself. Did you really work on Win2K environment then pass your exam, or you just study the books and braindump?
I proud myself for my MCSE, I didn't major in CS or MIS. But I worked in NT environment for complete 6 years, and I earned my MSCE from my job experience. Thanks MS for recognize my hard work. And I'll do the samething in MCSE2K.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 jack new york

this is a good decision.I did alot work getting my nt 4.0 certification and feel it is not right to take it away, I still plan on getting my 2k certification but at least I won't have to get it until we actually upgrade to it at my company..People who have both should be glad because alot of companies may be using a mix of both nt and 2k, and may be looking for that in a position..

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

What about just plain old MCP's??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 darkman concord, ca

Well whattaya know? Maybe Bill's hard heart was softened by recent events. Now I can bury the win2k tome for a while--good thing since we don't use it anyway and I can't recommend it for our small shop.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MattoCatto NZ

WooHoo! thats the first time anyone has rewarded me for my apathy and laziness!
I'm glad I never opened those books now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Craig Detroit, MI

Good news. I've always thought that I should be able to say I am an MCSE on NT 4.0 forever. I passed all the requirements. Just because Microsoft comes out with a new OS every year doesn't mean it causes me to lose knowledge of the older versions. And yah, why isn't anything listed about this on Microsoft's site???

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jason Honolulu

Great news! It's about time. I wonder what would happen if I had to go to college and renew my degree everytime humanities made simple changes!!! Microsoft finally did something right. Sure, the guys who have already busted their ass getting their Win2K will be upset...rightfully so. Judging at the number of people who took the win2k upgard..47K...thats less than 10 percent..pathetic. I think everybody just said..screw it! good call MS.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Razebo Los Angeles, CA

Although I have been feverishly studying for the upgrade exam(still plan to take it before the end of the year), I am glad to hear Microsoft will not be retiring the NT 4.0 MCSE distinction. Personally, I worked very hard for it. Professionally, though we live in a state of constant 'upgrade' flux, it makes it no less valid in a hybrid environment. On a resume I would look for that distinction anyway.....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ben California

Great decision! Why should my skills be labeled worthless when they are still very much in demand?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

According to mcpmag.com as of September 2001 there are 398,500 MCSEs on NT 4.0 compared to 47,000 on 2000. Long live the paper tiger! Way to go Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 tony Anonymous

I would like to verify if this means that those of us who did not complete the WINNT MCSE track still retain our MCP status?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mike New York

Funny, this announcement is not on the Microsoft MCP site.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tom NJ, USA

Good. Funny how they avoid revealing the REAL reason they thought of changing policy.....the hundreds of thousands of people screaming at them to do so for the last 2 years...plus think about it...Microsoft has the WORST reputation in the world as far as companies go, so its about time they do things that put them in a better light with the majority.

As for the people (like some posts before mine on here) who say "Well if you don't want to stay fresh - don't get the cert"....ok....so I should spend thosands and get certified for technology we don't use at my workplace? Makes about as much sense as selling refrigerators in the North Pole. ;)

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 George San Diego

I think all those people that say that the MCSE's that do not take the upgrade test are being left behind need to look at the bigger picture. I became MCSE when my company switched from Novell to NT4.0 in August of 2000. When I started to study for my tests 2K was not even out. My company has no intention of switching OS's until at least early 2003. How much longer was 3.51 out before 4.0? Yet 4.0 only stays valid 6 months longer? They did the right thing.

George MCSE, Net+, A+, and half-way to 2K MCSE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jeff San Diego

Hurray! Win one for the little guys! I have already upgraded to w2k, but think it is great that nt4 will not expire. These tests are bogus anyway. I just take them because they are required for my job. Now if Microsoft could only come up with a test that would determine if someone knew what the h*ll they were doing.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Nigel Morgans Stanford-le-Hope, England

IT people spend a lot of time working and learning, it is time for big software companies to realise it takes time to learn new tracks of software

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Although I think this is good news, I personally am a bit ticked. I just passed the last test I needed to upgrade to 2k on 10/9. I have busted my butt for 9 months, trying to get the tests done and giving up alot of my personal time. I think microsoft should have made this announcement much sooner. I know several others that have been trying to get the tests done before the end of the year because it is required in their position. Microsoft at least owns the 47,000 2k MCSEs some free software!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

OK So why not bring back the tests for the core NT4 exams also if it is still recognized.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mitch Anonymous

This changing of mind is a big blow to the Microsoft's credibilty.... what else would they decide to do last minute, just because there were not enough w2k mcse. What about those hard working dedicated mcse who worked so hard on their w2k certification?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anon Charlotte, NC

Well, It's been my experience that having the MCSE doesn't hold much weight in the IT world anyway. When I say this, I mean that the "Title" that I paid dearly for won't get me a job by itself. Check the employment adds for yourself, MCSE alone doesn't cut it. I had no intention of renewing my MCSE only to have the W2KSE stripped the next time Mr. Bill needs some capital. The one that I have now hasn't paid for itself yet!!!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think Microsoft couldn't face 350,000 cheesed off MCSE's and still maintain the number IT pro's needed in the industry. I will benefit by maintaining my credentials and by adding the new ones as time becomes available. Some of us do have to work.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 tien charlotte

Agreed totally with the article, lets the market decide. I would not get re-cert with Win2K or whatever the next version of MS OS is. Just because MS said they are retire my NT 4.0 MCSE!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 tien charlotte

Agreed totally with the article, lets the market decide. I would not get re-cert with Win2K or whatever the next version of MS OS is. Just because MS said they are retiring my NT 4.0 MCSE!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think it is good news. I upgraded my 4.0 cert in Feb. this will now show that I hold both. Previously no one would have known.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Peter T Cosford

Great news, i have studied hard to get to MCSE NT 4 and windows 2000 is my next goal. The accelerated exam is tomorrrow I intend to finish windows 2000 MCSE and gain MCT. I feel this is for me and will carry on taking exams to remain current with the latest technology. however when the MCSE was to to taken away christmas I did feel cheated by Microsoft as if it was my fault for no being current and i was considering looking at other Technologys.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Houston

Excellent! NT4.0 is not going away any time soon. There are alot of companies like the one I work for that are going to recognize the NT4 certification whether Microsoft continues to or not!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Still Disgusted Florida

Well, that is just peachy. I have NT 4.0 Server, Workstation and TCP/IP. I was going to go on to NT in the Enterprise when Microsoft announced they were going to take away the MCSE for 4.0 so I decided not to take that core exam because I was not going to go for the Accelerated Exam (I have enough problems with one at a time) and now they are saying that whoever has the Core exams will be able to take electives and still become MCSEs so I am still stuck with taking them all. Thanks, Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I'm not so happy about this. Over the past 6 years I have worked hard to obtain over 21 certifications in an attempt to keep up with industyr demand. I am MCSE on NT 3.51, 4.o, and anticipate completing my W2K cert by Dec 31 2001. This change means my hard work will not be rewarded with the pay and status it deserves. Specificall with regard to the MCT, every Tom, Dick and Harry will still be MCT, and many schools who are not interested in quality (and there are MANY) will pay these inferiror MCT's low salaries for teaching the Windows32 track, and will not use the more qualified trainers such as myself. I have seen this too often. Sadly this practice will now continue.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

To the person who asked how many 4.0 mcse's are out there... about half a million. Thats about 10 times the number of 2k mcse's

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Realism prevailed! San jose, CA

Realistic decision by MSoft. After all, Win2k relies on NT40's knowledge. MCSEs will upgarde their cert anyway for their own sake.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bob Pittsburgh

How does this affect the Microsoft Solution provider status of a company? Will the company still need to have W2K people on board to be an MCSP?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bob Pittsburgh

How does this affect the Microsoft Solution provider status of a company? Will the company still need to have W2K people on board to be an MCSP?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Excellence NY

Excellent News! Gives a clear cut distinction between the two operating systems. The way it should be. Finally some Good News with all the negative things happening in the world.

Good Job Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Nice.. I just finished took 2 weeks off work to finish W2K last week.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's about time. The retirement of the NT 4.0 MCSE was nothing more than a scam for Microsoft to get more test money while flexing their illegal monopoly power.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's about time. The retirement of the NT 4.0 MCSE was nothing more than a scam for Microsoft to get more test money while flexing their illegal monopoly power.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's about time. The retirement of the NT 4.0 MCSE was nothing more than a scam for Microsoft to get more test money while flexing their illegal monopoly power.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Silicon Valley

I've always held that experience should be what counts and the level of experience. I've already found that most companies would prefer the experience over the cert. Besides, just who is Microsofts' target audience? Large, medium or small business? Depending on the target, if it is small biz, then many small biz don't have the financial resources to "upgrade" to new platforms. They want to see ROI quickly and that doesn't always happen. If they are stabilized with an NOS and all their apps are working properly, they are NOT prone to want to change that.......Just as recent as 1997, I had to bring a small, but thriving company from DOS and NW 3.0 to NT w/Oracle. I'm sure they aren't going to be moving to W2K anytime soon. Besides, tests are just tests, not the real world of IT.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Howard Fayetteville, Arkansas

Microsoft just devalued the MCSE certification. Staying current is part of being a true network professional. By next summer NT4 will be TWO versions back. If MCSE is going to mean anything it needs to get more exclusive, not less.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Toronto

This is GREAT !!! After such hard work to attain an MCSE designation we should not be penalized into studying again needlessly if our companies are not going the W2K root. Not to mention the time and money expense. Hurray for this decision!! Now studying can resume at a more SANE pace!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brian Connecticut

This is good news as NT 4.0 is still a very stable and useful os, and I believe that it proves that Microsoft is somewhat dependent on MCSE's t market their product. Their plan to decertify all NT 4.0 MCP's provided quite a backlash from the IT community. I know several MCSE's who were prepared to seek other certifications as time grew closer to December. This also speaks to the fact that most corporate WAN's are heterogeneous and NT will be here for a while.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 luke florida

2 questions -- this doesn't mention plain old MCP's, and do the core exams still allow you to choose Win9X OR WinNT Workstation?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tony Port-Gentil

This is the best news for me in recent time....I was almost going to lose my certification for reasons not entirely my fault. I use Win2K but due to my present location, it is impossible to take the exams. Now I have more respect for Microsoft....they know more than just releasing fantastic software...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Bad news! From the way I see it, w2k cert will bring dignity to the mcse chain. One year is long enough for any serious minded person to move on to w2k.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Matt Connecticut

...to be honest, I really thought MS was going to wait a little longer, like, November, to make such an announcement. NO ONE in this industry I've talked to (who has a pulse) could figure out how MS was going to nullify/remove the NT 4.0 OS. After all, that's what we're supporting now, right? Until it does vannish, much like the Despots of the Middle Ages, people who can support it and keep it running are going to be much needed. And let's be honest folks,...new MCSEs who have/will come up with Win2000 are NOT going to be those people.

MOST MCSEs I've spoken to are going to wait to see how XP Cert is going to be approached before investing any more time away from the paycheck-provider. By the accounts I've read, fewer than 17% of the global MCSE population have upgraded to Win2000 (approx 279,000 people world wide). That means (stick with me the math gets kinda rough) that 80% of the WORLDS' MCSEs have NOT yet chosen to upgrade. That's a HUGE drop in support. Imagine, one day there are a million police officers in the USA, then, by the start of next year, there are now (magically) only 200,000!!! Or, to put it into terms we ALL can relate to: Imagine if you went from making $1,000 a week (for those in higher brackets, STOP SNEERING, I'm just making a point) then next week, for no apparent reason, you would only make $200. Microsoft would have cut it's OS support presence by more than 3/4th (actually 83%, right?)
In the article, I particlularly enjoyed Bobby Stewart's comments of: "...do the right thing.." and "We shouldn't be the ones calling the shots; we should let the market decide that." WHATTA HOOT !!! Half-baked to be sure.

Baked...like, say, 'Humble-Pie'....?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Denis san francisco

I for one will never sit for a microsoft exam again. Talk about pulling one's chain.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 just me Irvine

Stop wasting your time on trying to get certified on servers certs (unless that's what you want to do), and start learning backbone technologies...e.g firewalls, Load Balancers, Routers, VPN's, IDS's,... what you should be shooting for is CISSP, Cisco Certs, and Unix(solaris) certs..it'll be more worth your time and effort.....I'm 23 and make almost twice as much as MSCE's......the money is here...and it's not too difficult once you get the foundation logistics down......just a thought....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I applaud Microsoft's decision to change the MCSE certification requirements. All of us who have MCSE's under the NT 4 track worked hard to bring our skills up to that level, to maintain them, and to study and pass the exams. I was upset about the retirement plans because it was like telling us that our college and vocational diplomas expired because the knowledge we acquired was insufficient and no longer pertinent. Everything we know is still pertinent, and we should all be striving for W2K certification. But for a lot of us for whom computing is NOT the center of our lives, who don't have the time and resources to scramble for recertification, the only option left was to let our certificates expire and hope that someday we would be able to try again provided we could muster up the resources.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Does MS plan on extending the time period to take the accelerated exam?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This is great news for us who have a life outside of computers! I for one intend on upgrading to w2k...now that I have a little more time I can finish my BS degree without stressing out about being decertified at the end of 2001.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fuck u MS USA

I think Ms is out of mind. I spent a lot of money in gaining NT4 certification, but due to a mistake by their partener institute i wasn't being able to appear for my last paper on time (before 28 Feb). & now when i was plannning for fucking MS 2k track, they r saying NT track still accepted.

Fuck MS Fuck Bill Gates.

Long live Linux

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think Ms is out of mind. I spent a lot of money in gaining NT4 certification, but due to a mistake by their partener institute i wasn't being able to appear for my last paper on time (before 28 Feb). & now when i was plannning for fucking MS 2k track, they r saying NT track still accepted.

Fuck MS Fuck Bill Gates.

Long live Linux

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Loren Anonymous

BAD NEWS, now they will probably seperate the XP track exams from the W2K exams that most people have been cramming to complete, only to have to start over from the short lived W2K track....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think Ms is out of mind. I spent a lot of money in gaining NT4 certification, but due to a mistake by their partener institute i wasn't being able to appear for my last paper on time (before 28 Feb). & now when i was plannning for fucking MS 2k track, they r saying NT track still accepted.

Fuck MS Fuck Bill Gates.

Long live Linux

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Loren Anonymous

BAD NEWS, now they can seperate the XP track exams from the W2K exams that most people have been cramming to complete, only to have to start over from the short lived W2K track....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous USA

Hats of to MS! They listened to my heart's beat. I was kind of dis-illusioned to keep pace with the new OSs Microsoft are flooding the market. Realistically speaking, NT4 had just begun to be acknowledged as a powerful, user friendly and popular OS when win2k hit the market. From a professional point of view, the achievements(certifications) should never be undermined by looming threats. I am an MCSE and an MCP+I on NT4 and feel proud to be so. Loosing certifications credit was like being disgraced. This decision has revived my spirit and confidence with MS. Feel compelled to pursue win2k now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chuck MA, USA

Definitely welcome news, for those of us who have to work for a living and prefer to actually know the material, rather than just be able to pass the test.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

i agree this sucks they should not extend it u all can go after the new cert just like the 47000 other people. there is nothing on the microsoft site u would think a major announcement would have been on their site before mcpmag got a hold of it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 PokeyPuppy Tampa, Florida

I believe this is not only excellent news but extremely relevant. Case in point, if I spent four years (as some have just to get certified) in college and received a degree and they told me two years later that I'd have to spend another 100K and another four years to get an upgraded degree, I would bet there would be a lot less college people out there.... Just my two cents, Remember, It's hard until you know how... Then it's easy!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brad Holloway Los Angeles

Excellent news!!! I agree that IT professionls have to keep up with the changing times, but we should move with the market, not against or artifucially ahead of it! Our network is still 70% NT 4 although we are planning to move to 2000 over the next year to two. The certifications should reflect this! Thanks Microsoft!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 almostW2KMCSE Anonymous

Good news! MS did the right thing not retiring the MCSE NT. However, they were wrong in waiting so long. I feel sorry for all the NT MCSE's cramming to try to meet the deadline and then MS decides about 2 months before the deadline, "we changed our minds...sorry". MS should have never tried to push W2K down everyone's throats. Their Marketing ploy backfired and now they have egg on their face because they had to rescind their decision. WIN NT will be around for a long time, so I think it is a good move to differentiate the titles, MCSE NT and MCSE W2K. Each is a certification to be proud of. Let's hope that MS learns a lesson from all this.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 PokeyPuppy Tampa, Florida

I believe this is not only excellent news but extremely relevant. Case in point, if I spent four years (as some have just to get certified) in college and received a degree and they told me two years later that I'd have to spend another 100K and another four years to get an upgraded degree, I would bet there would be a lot less college people out there.... Just my two cents, Remember, It's hard until you know how... Then it's easy!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's about time. The retirement of the NT 4.0 MCSE was nothing more than a scam for Microsoft to get more test money while flexing their illegal monopoly power.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Prince Willy Anonymous

Very GOOD News
I am an NT 4.0 MCSE.
I did not intented at any moment to upgrade to MCSE 2K. I won't mind learning win 2k.
It's not because we have a new book in accounting or maths that you will ask people who hold a bachelor degree to go back to school and get a new bachelor. That's ridiculous.
Thanks for the wake up call. Microsoft is finally learning something.
Long live to NT 4.0 MCSE.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

see this link

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mary San Diego

Yes technology is constantly changing but everyone doesn't have to jump on the wagon. I work for the government and we have to get all the security issues investigated before we can convert to W2k. We just got things stable with nt4.0. I wasn't going to take MCSE off my resume after December anyway I like many others was just going to add the title that Microsoft is now supporting.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bill US

Very good news. Anyone complaining should examine the effect of having their college degrees, bar exam, or job experience revoked every 2-4 years. The retirement was at best a strategy for increasing training revenue and forcing everyone to change simply by tearing pages out of the history book.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

While the puppeteer pulls the strings, the puppet jumps. Last year when they put everyone trying to get certified in tizzy fits to get those blasted, god-forsaken exams passed, they then extended the time. What difference does all this make?
I got them ALL done by the original deadline. Took three exams in two months and finished a non-retiring exam in Feb. and got certified. BFD, who needs all this headache?Screw Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very good news. There are a lot of companies that are going to stick with NT4 for a while longer. Novell certs are done by platform, so should Microsoft's.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

While the puppeteer pulls the strings, the puppet jumps. Last year when they put everyone trying to get certified in tizzy fits to get those blasted, god-forsaken exams passed, they then extended the time. What difference does all this make?
I got them ALL done by the original deadline. Took three exams in two months and finished a non-retiring exam in Feb. and got certified. BFD, who needs all this headache?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Fantastic News. I am an NT4 MCSE who has been integrating Win2k into networks for some time. By not retiring our certs MS will generate a lot of good will which we shall all appreciate. Whats more, I am now more inclined to put more effort into Win2k than I planned.

Thanks microsoft and cheers to all NT4 MCSEs out there.

Tone

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 The Dog Honolulu

Good Deal! My Govt customer will be glad to hear that. NT 4 is the bastion of our network and by the time we are ready to upgrade to 2k, 2015 ought to be on the street

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I took 5 MCSE 2k classes to upgrade my MCSE to win2k b/c I had taken win98 as an OS. I did it in 2 months! People need to get on the ball. Being part of a special class is part of the certification motivation. Microsoft just took that away and gave in to the tired service providers. NT4 is old technology. Long live DOS! Ya, right!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mike Gower Victoria, BC

I'd like to find out what effect this has on Microsoft Certified Partners. Now that the NT 4 certifications are valid, I assume organizations can retain their partner status without the need to have two staff in each office with MCPs for W2K.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Where is this listed on Microsoft's website?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Where is this listed on Microsoft's website?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I have all but one elective done for the 2000 track and am wondering if any of the cores from NT4 will fill that gap. I don't care to sit for another 4 hour exam if it isn't necessary. If you know, let me know.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I'm pleased as I only completed my mcse last year and have struggled to learn Win2k without my company using it extensively. I also have a busy responsible job and a young family and were finding the ridiculous deadlines making me reconsider ditching the whole thing. I still might if the OS is going to change every year. There is no need for deadlines as product naturally lose their value but this is dictated by the market not by the MS income-generation team.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dan Oklahoma

I think that this is not so great news for the 47000 that have achieved the W2K Cert; I admire their efforts and I am going to join their ranks soon. However, this is GREAT news for those of us that have not got there yet! Working in the industry for 20+ years and watching it grow and change, I have realized that you HAVE to stay current in your job skills to stay employed, but I don't let the software vendor "rush" me to make my decisions on when and how I will continue to support their products. That decision is mine. As such, I had decided to get the W2K cert at my OWN pace. If I didn't make it before the year-end deadline, it would not mean an end to my career, just a delay in my posting of the shingle on the wall.
Remember guys/ladies, Windows XP is just around the corner!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Now I can be double MCSE!! Better Job security and shows that I have a good foundation WOO HOo! -- I can keep my business cards!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ruben Houston

mixed: Microsoft shouldn't control the market even further than it has by dictating what kind of expertise an IT professional should have by decertifying someone on an earlier track. However at the same time, I feel that this will only cause lazyness among MCSE's or potential MCSE's to get certified on the next generation OS. Sure companies aren't migrating to 2K as fast as MS would have liked, but eventually they will need to. The IT industry still needs for IT people to stay on top of the trends that the market produces, whether MS controls the market or not.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Typical Microsoft. It's a shame we don't use Unix around here or I would be off this bandwagon.
Nothing like waiting until the last minute!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ruben Houston

mixed: Microsoft shouldn't control the market even further than it has by dictating what kind of expertise an IT professional should have by decertifying someone on an earlier track. However at the same time, I feel that this will only cause lazyness among MCSE's or potential MCSE's to get certified on the next generation OS. Sure companies aren't migrating to 2K as MS would have liked, but eventually they will need to. The IT industry still needs for IT people to stay on top of the trends that the market produces, whether MS controls the market or not.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rob Washington

About time. I declined to upgrade my cert to Win2k. Decided to move to Novell. I am not spending $10K in classes so all I work for is taken away because MS wants to sell something new. The MCSE turned out to be for the rich not the smart. My abilities to admin NT, Exchange and IIS have not increased or decreased because MS says so. My company doesn't want any stinkin XP anyways.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Aaron Texas

I, do belive this is right is the right thing to do for microsoft. As is stands, the 2000 track is a great route to go, but with the XP on the horizon; who is to say that 2000 will not be outdated as well. Spening good money on certification for the 4.0 track came out of pocket, and will likley the same for 2000 track for me. I think that leaving the certification unretired is the thing to do, but also gaining more knowledge is paramount. So following up by getting the newer certifications is important, pending the network you are on is moving to 2000/XP if not keeping current knowedge on the 4.0 track is important to the Administrator.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rob Washington

About time. I declined to upgrade my cert to Win2k. Decided to move to Novell. I am not spending $10K in classes so all I work for is taken away when my abilities to admin NT, Exchange and IIS have not. My company doesn't want any stinkin XP anyways. Microsoft thinks it has control of too much. We own our software, we aren't going to rent it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jason California

Well I think this is great news. I no longer feel abandoned my MS. I work in an environment where NT4.0 is a much bigger part of our organization than 2K, but my MCSE skills still come in very handy with the 2k. In fact without the 2K cert I am still the resident NT/2K guru in a system with well over 1000 machines. I was very upset with MS and was probably not going to upgrade to 2K and only keep a current MCP cert and go with another cert like RHCE or CISCO. I will now definately find the time to attain other MS certifications. Besides, lets face it guys...taking the tests for these certs really doesn't help us do our jobs...its purely status symbol...we learn what needs to be done with NT/2K/95/98/or whatever by doing the tasks at hand.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Robert Texas

WHAT? You mean Microsoft actually realized what's going on in the real world? And I was so looking forward to the 2k guys paniking about XP certs disqualifying them........

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Robert Texas

WHAT? You mean Microsoft actually realized what's going on in the real world? And I was so looking forward to the 2k guys paniking about XP certs disqualifying them........

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dan Banza Illinois

I am glad that Microsoft has rescinded its decision.
It is an arrogant organization that thought it could throw the baby with the bath water.
What was the logic of devaluing the certification for their own products.
Or did they think that they have a bunch of boys running institutions and corporations who would run out to buy their software like children buy pokemon cards?
The competition is out there, Oracle, Cisco, Novell, the least Microsoft can do is show some respect to people who support their products.
Shame!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rob White, MCSE/NT4.0 San Francisco

I love it! I worked hard for this certification and I'm extremely gratified that I won't be losing it as I had expected. Also, due to financial concerns, my company is not moving on an upgrade to Win 2000 right now. So my NT 4 experience and knowledge is definitely useful here! Hardliners, go enjoy your hard-earned Windows 2000 designation and put it to use where you can. We NT4 types are still needed now and will be needed for a long time to come.....Cheers, -Rob

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 MCSE ON WINDOWS 2000 Alabama

Most of you just don't get it....Microsoft didn't change their minds because a bunch of whiners persuaded them. They did it because less than 10% of the MCSE population could pass the test(s). This reflected poorly on Microsoft, it's operating system, and their effort to clean up the "paper MCSE." Your individual failure to achieve the next level of certification is of no consequence to MS or the job market the bigger picture was that MCT's would not keep their Cert's, so the snowball effect to MS was... no teachers....means no students....means no recommendation to upgrade Os's. Which really hurts Microsoft. So now you've been duped again

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Steve Colorado

Good move MS. Then people are rewarded for what certificatoin the market demands. If employers don't want NT4, then it won't be worth anything anyway. The retirement of the NT4 track was too soon anyway.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 arik Sugar land TX

Ok Now I can justify the 8k loan that I took in order to get the mcse nt 4.0,
way to go, FYI i am still paying the intrest
on that loan!!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Denis USA, Providence, RI

This is great news and a smart decision by Microsoft. To unilaterally decertify NT 4.0 would not pay appropriate homage to the tremendous amount of hard work and time spent in gaining certification and to the high investment in technology and education made by some companies. I believe this decision aptly recognizes that “knowledge” is not merely a disposable commodity of Madison Avenue, but it is a quantifiable trait that can continue to be used, matured, and developed. And while I also believe that education is an ongoing process and those individuals who upgrade should be recognized, I also DO NOT believe that their recognition should demean the hard work of others. Therefore in the long run most people will see Microsoft’s decision was thoughtfully crafted. They have appropriately decided to let “marketplace” economics work and to not interfere with individual business cultures or climates.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jack Texas

I feel a New Lawsuit coming on against Microsoft.....after all there are people like me that were on their way to becoming MCSE Certified on the NT4.0 track when Microsoft announced that it was retiring it in Dec. 2001 and like me, I decided not to spend the extra money and effort to get the NT4.0 MCSE, instead I decided to work on the Win 2k MCSE, after all what is the use of having the NT4.0 if it was going to retire in a few months, now they are telling us that the NT4.0 track is not retiring. So because of Microsoft saying that they were going to retire the NT4.0 track and then not, there are thousands of IT Professionals that are without a certification that they should have.......So are the Core Exams for the NT4.0 Track coming back???????

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Derek Missouri

Seems to me that this might hinder the job search for some... myself included. I considered the MCSE 4 but with retirement pending waited and got the MCSE 2k and now that MS is keeping the MCSE 4 I have a feeling a job might be even harder to find... any thoughts?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ron Rumbaoa Anonymous

This is welcome news! I worked hard to get NT4 Certified and despite having worked in the Microsoft Environment for over 5 years, I was only able to achieve MCSE last year. Although I am a test short of MCSE W2K, I still welcome the change.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Shamal New York

Microsoft probably realized the fact that NT-4 is still used in thousands of organizations around the world who might not upgrade to W2k pretty soon. Therefore, there is still demand for MCSEs on NT-4 and it has been wise of Microsoft that they decided not to retire MCSE certifications on NT-4.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Joe Canada

Just because someone has got the W2k MCSE, doesn't mean that they know how to administer a WinNT 4 network. There are many, many NT 4.0 networks that will remain in place for a long time. I just don't agree with getting a certification if you don't need it to do your job.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

They should stick to their original plan even if it was wrong. Changing it now is NOT listening! Changing it two years ago would have been listening. They are only doing this because of poor acceptance. It also screws the people that did do the inane "upgrade".

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 David Taylor, MCSE+I CCA Duluth, MN

I am thankful that in the future, I will still be able to be identified as one of the few who had the motivation, skill, and talent to acheive the MCSE+I (NT4) Certification.

With this new policy, employeers/prospects will be able to identify that my technology training may be out of date, should I fail to timely complete W2K certification requirements; however, they will always be able to see my history of acheivement. Yes, I will still be taking some W2K exams, especially the Accelerated by the end of the year ;) However, now...when I take a break to go for the CCIE if I cannot stay current...my history will be known!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 G.Hudgins Newport News, VA

Finally the people prevail!!! That's the best news I've heard in a long time from Microsoft. Hopefully they will also now continue their support for NT as well. We use it where I work and haven't even begun to look at Win2000 yet. Bravo for Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 TonyG London

Good news I work in a mixed win2k enviroment and can not see NT going for some time. At present working hard for 70-240 this is not easy working long hours if I do not pass time to take 1 by 1.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 ANONYMOUS Anonymous

Those individuals who choose a hard line approach to certification should reevaluate their opinion. They contend that "if you want to work in a fast paced industry then you should keep up with the latest technology." I currently hold 6 industry certifications, nearly a BSCS and participated on a writing team for an international certification. It is obvious that many of these individuals work in shops that are small where an ADS design can be served up and implemented within a week. Perhaps they should try doing the design and plan for the rollout of Windows 2000 across 50,000 workstations and 1,200 servers whose site boundaries span continents, not the town or building next door. We don't want to omit planning for security and integration with 4 different flavors of Unix, Mainframe, Novell and other legacy environments. Oh, and lets also not forget the application testing and certification phase. People that claim these statements indicate to me that they have little or no experience with large-scale infrastructure. This is exactly 180 degrees out of phase of Bill Gates vision (read The Road Ahead). My views are that many of the people that spew this sort of rhetoric are inexperienced, careless and foolish with their words. Many companies of global size have just completed their evaluation of Windows 2000 and have just started the initiation of W2K into their environments. Business, other than those centered around IT, needs to focus on running their business. For this they need a stable and secure, not one that is being constantly uprooted by reengineering efforts. Additionally, many IT workers have homes and families. They don't have the luxury to sit at home and play with their lab all night long. I'll get off of my soapbox now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

great news...there are still many companies that are not in a hurry to migrate to W2K quite yet...NT4 knowlegde is still much needed in the industry.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I am currently an MCSD and have been forced to recertify for two straight years. It is not fair that the sheer bulk of MCSE's pull so much weight with the certification industry.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jon Kansas

It's about time microsoft thought of the public. Pumping out os's is a good thing but the current mcse's are drowning trying to stay up to par with new certifications emotionally and financially. Those that are mcse's right now shouldn't be so sure of themselves. It seems like mcse today means nothing tomorrow until now... JB- MCSE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Holly Novato, CA

Good news, but too really make it fair, they should also extend the 70-240 upgrade exam. If I'm still an MCSE, then I should still be allowed to upgrade.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ken (MCSE/DBA-2K) US

Those who have their MCSE-2K are opposed to this change, those who haven't re-educated themselves are in favor of this. Right? NT4 has been out now for over 5 years...get over it. And let’s be honest, as certs go, the existing MCSE has always been way too easy to obtain. Many obtained it with very little real knowledge. The 2K cert is a little tougher at least on the testing side of things. Beyond certs, let’s get on to the real world.
Win2K as a platform revolutionizes the Windows OS industry from a management and infrastructure perspective. It positions MS as a serious Back-Office industry competitor to companies like SUN, Oracle, Informix etc. We're all scared of change and the unknown. But you must get to know Win2K and embrace it, not just for your organization, but for your own career. By the end of the year, I will be full Win2K in the Datacenter (i.e. OS, Exchange, SQL, etc.) which will produce a significantly more stable and feature rich environment. By early spring, maybe by the end of the year, I will also have XP Pro out eradicating the troublesome NT4 Wkstn. Small organizations obviously may not be able to move so quickly. Nevertheless, if you are career minded, and want to look to the higher level, take advantage of the extension you just received, and start now on moving to the 2k/xp cert. As a Technical Manager, I want the best and the brightest! I’m not looking to hire NT4 staff. And for those places that are, they’re obviously not proactive sites. As such, you as an employee have already dug yourself into a hole. You will not command higher pay or knowledge via that route. And let’s be honest, when faced with working long IT hours, we really are all in it for the money, at least to some degree. You wouldn’t go to work and strap yourself to a pager 24x7 for free. If you’re going to do it, why not do it to the best degree you can, and reap a just reward for your time and efforts! P.S. - Stay current as best you can! Good luck all...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Wayne Canada

Finaly a market driven decission from Microsoft... It only proves that some one at the company can hear it's customers.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 TONY TX

Bitter but relieved. MS probably wasn't getting enough interest or income. I know 2 yrs ago I wanted to advance from my lowly 27K/yr help desk position to IT after reading the MS and training school propaganda of jobs and 40K jobs. I paid 3-4K for classes, books, and tests and lost months of time away from my family trying to earn this credential. I finally got certified at the beginning of the year and then nothing happened. My employer didn't need an MCSE, and I choose to leave the company since they were laying off everyone anyway. 6 months later MCSE certification has still not gotten me a job, much less a 40K job. I was not going to pay the MS system any more money for additional testing if there is nothing to gain from the certification and then you make intentionally make certifications obsolete. I don't think I was alone in this view.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mike Anonymous

Great news, before this news I was going to give up on microsoft technologies, and focus in on Linux, Unix, or maybe even Novell, but I think that this is fair, I might even prepare to write 2000pro within the next few months. If I do ok on this, then I'm sure that I'll follow up with my MCSE 2000 over the next little while.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 TONY TX

Bitter but relieved. MS probably wasn't getting enough interest or income. I know 2 yrs ago I wanted to advance from my lowly 27K/yr help desk position to IT after reading the MS and training school propaganda of jobs and 40K jobs. I paid 3-4K for classes, books, and tests and lost months of time away from my family trying to earn this credential. I finally got certified at the beginning of the year and then nothing happened. My employer didn't need an MCSE, and I choose to leave the company since they were laying off everyone anyway. 6 months later MCSE certification has still not gotten me a job, much less a 40K job. I was not going to pay the MS system any more money for additional testing if there is nothing to gain from the certification and then you make intentionally make certifications obsolete. I don't think I was alone in this view.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ed NYC

This may sound a bit selfish. I would have applauded this decision had it happened months and months ago. However, I just (September 2001) finished an 11-month cram session ending with the successful passing of all the necessary exams, and am now a W2K MCSE. Now...does this sound selfish? Of course. But, would YOU think any differently? I busted my a** for almost a year...practically giving up my life...built three new PC's at home to get the AD experience. Not fair. True...I did get a nice little "Early Adopter MCSE W2K Card" from Microsoft. They really need to get their sh*t together...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 dennis San Francisco Bay Area

After thinking about it, it is clear that the REAL problem is that MS made it too difficult for most of us to upgrade our MCSE's. Choice #1- Pass 7 new tests. Choise #2 - Pass the 240 exam on the first try. The pass rate on the 240 exam is very low. So setting aside time to prepare for and take 7 tests while working full time is very difficult. It isn't as bad for MCSE's working for large companies, because these companies often pay for the courses and give their people time off to prepare for the test. No wonder only 1/8 of MCSE's upgraded their certification!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Uche Obiji Warri - Nigeria

I think this makes sense...Let the market decide what it really wants.
Just got certified on NT4.0 last february and I need the certificate to still be valid.
Indeed another hit for Microsoft...after the last extention of NT 4.0 exams !!! Keep it Up !!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous NY

How can they keep certification in NT 4.0 if there are no more exams to update too. specially when some electives have been retired!!!! won't they still be considered retired status and be forced to do the new track to maintain the status if not where does that leave the people who are NT 4.0 and now 2000 MCSE ????

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Tom CA

They finally got the clue that there are thousands businesses with NT 4.0 networks out there that have no desire to upgrade a network that works (most of the time) for them; especially considering the current economic climate.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chuck Ulm Albany GA

I am relativly new to IT. I graduated from a technical college about 2.5 years ago with a diploma in Networking. My training there centered around Windows NT 4.0. About the time I graduated we got word that the NT MCSE Certification was going away. At that point I elected not to pursue the NT 4.0 MCSE and work on the Win2K cert later. About the time I get ready to start on the Win2K cert Microsoft comes out with XP and of course I am wondering if the Win2K cert will go away also...
I am glad to see the NT4 cert preserved but between their oscilating on the certification program and their recent shenanigans with product licensing I find myself more and more annoyed with Microsoft. I have recently built myself a Linux box. Over time I have made the migration from a Microsoft devotee to one of their detractors. Microsoft needs to get a grip on who their customers are and their needs. I once defended their monopoly as a good thing. I am beginning to see things in a diffrent light.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ron Mission Viejo

I'm working on my W2K MCSE but really resented MS trying to force NT 4.0 MCSE's to upgrade or lose their certification.
There are still massive networks based on NT 4.0 that may never become Windows 2000 based. My working experience and my NT 4.0 MCSE will continue to have value in those environments so it makes sense to continue to recognize the certification.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brian San Francisco, CA

Great news. Although we should all attempt to upgrade and enhance our skillset to meet the new technology, it is refreshing to know that what we all worked very hard to obtain(MCSE) in the first place remains intact. I only hope this was done in good faith and not as part of a PR move. I'd also like to know how many NT4.0 MCSE's there are compared to 2K.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 James Flavin PA

I agree that Microsoft should have revision-specific certification but I would think that Microsoft should send a check for $3,000-$5,000 to the people who already completed the Win2K certification process because of Microsoft's fickleness.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Thomas Miller, MCSE, CCA Dalton, GA

I just got off the phone with Microsoft and they confirmed that the NT 4.0 MCSE has been extended "indefinitely." I feel that Microsoft has made a step in the right direction. Many of us spent a tremendous amount of time in order to certify on NT 4.0. I was rather disappointed when Microsoft announced that they would be abandoning NT 4 MCSEs. The news yesterday came as a great surprise and made my day!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mark Cupertino CA

I felt that the purpose of eliminating windows NT track was to force everyone to learn the overly complex win2K OS because Microsoft was afraid of slow adoption to this difficult-to-learn OS. I felt that the decert benefited Microsoft at the expense of all the hard working MCSE's and companies who needed to employ NT 4 MCSE's for their companies. I applaud Microsoft's change in position but wish they had changed their policy sooner to prevent alienation of their MCSE's.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

good idea to let the industry decide if the certification is worthwhile or not

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Al DE

This sounds great, but what about MCDBAs? Do we still have to pass Win2K Server by 12/31/01?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Maureen Redford

I would like to thank everyone who worked on reaching this decision. I became a Microsoft Certifed Systems Engineer last year after so much hard work. I must say that I was not quite ready to give up the title. Thank you once more and May God Bless America.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Al Florida

Outstanding! Kudos to Microsoft for having the courage to make this change. This is great news for MCSEs and buisnesses alike.

Keeping MCSE's certified by OS makes more sense than decertification. Think about it, would you want your college degree or high school diploma revoked beacuse the world has changed in the 5, 10, 15, or more years since you graduated?

This is the right decision for the right reasons. Many of us are supporting numerous clients (and working for our own companies as well) where NT4 still rules, and will probably remain the main OS for at least 2 - 3 more years. Most of our customers are just now looking at W2K and wondering about XP. Most are taking the position of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it,-- not yet anyway." They will move to W2K/XP, but not yet, and not soon given the current state of the economy.

No disrespect to the MCSEs who have worked hard to earn the W2K cert. In fact I salute you! Kudo's to each of you. I hope to join you shortly as an MCSE on NT4 AND W2K.

An MCSE on NT4 who IS working hard to finish the W2K cert.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 pete matthews suffolk uk

Thank god for that. Was going for the W2k upgrade exam next month, think I might just do them individually instead. Microsoft have made a good decision for a change !!! instead of getting everybodies backs up!!!! Bad luck for people who have rushed to upgrade though, although at least they have upgraded now and got it over with !!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dave Hong Kong

What a big JOKE from Microsoft to those Win2K MCSEs...
Dave
MCSE Win2K, NT 4, MCP+I, CCNA

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I don't think it matters either way. what matters is experiance. anyone can take a test and pass it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 michael Anonymous

Just remember.. to everyone who thinks that this is good... for every mcse out there, our price in the marketplace goes down... either step up or step out....
I achieved MCSE on Windows NT 4.0 and MCSE on Windows 2000... and I do not want my value to go down because of whiners!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 skeptical Anonymous

makes me wonder how they will address currently certified on NT4 with the individual exams being retired. Surely they won't make any $. Been bustin my butt and need 2 more for 2k

MCSE, MCP+I, MCP2k

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 David T. Spearman, MCSE, Topeka, KS

My stake on this issue is that the individual should keep what they have earned or accomplished without subject to any others indefinite opinions. Anyone who takes the time to accomplish skills, certifications, or educational accomplishments should not be subjected to expiration threats. I certainly do not expect my Bachelor of Science Degree to expire. However, I do expect to continue ongoing education and training to remain competitive throughout my career.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Daniel San Diego

Question: Does this mean that MCDBA's who passed the SQL Server 7 exams, and not the SQL Server 2000 exams, still face de-certification soon? What was the original policy on this, and has it changed?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Thomas Oakland

It was great news because I had no plans on upgrading to 2000. How can you retire a certification that is still valuable to the industry. Although my company has started migrating to Windows 2k servers, the bulk of my servers are still NT 4.0.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bryan Madison

The NT 4.0 Track must be retired to maintain the value of the MCSE credential - there are just too many MCSE 4.0 folks - mainly just paper credentials - some 392,000 - while there are only 47,000 W2K MCSE - - if something is worth having - its worth working for - - the NT 4.0 track exams were always way too easy!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bryan Madison

The NT 4.0 Track must be retired to maintain the value of the MCSE credential - there are just too many MCSE 4.0 folks - mainly just paper credentials - some 392,000 - while there are only 47,000 W2K MCSE - - if something is worth having - its worth working for - - the NT 4.0 track exams were always way too easy!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bryan Madison

The NT 4.0 Track must be retired to maintain the value of the MCSE credential - there are just too many MCSE 4.0 folks - mainly just paper credentials - some 392,000 - while there are only 47,000 W2K MCSE - - if something is worth having - its worth working for - - the NT 4.0 track exams were always way too easy!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

who cares.......

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fred Huntsville

Microsoft has finally seen the writing on the wall in regards to certifications. True It professionals are not going to be pushed into updating their certifications just because Microsoft needs to sell a product. Most IT shops cannot and will not migrate to a new OS overnight, especially one as significant as W2K. It is indeed an awsome product and we plan to implement it within the next year. The idea that they can just invalidate your certification because a new version has come out is crazy. Their idea of Passport will fail as well. I am an avid Microsoft fan who is beginning to become wary of their tactics. I am going to start looking at Linux as I see Microsoft loosing ground with their strong arm tactics. They need to slow down and focus more on strengthening security and less on pushing out a new version!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Lets see: 47k MCSE's in 2k = 329000 tests taken @ $100 a pop; Say MS makes only $25 per test = $8.225 Mil!!! Force the 2k MCSE track down our throats and make millions on it! Food for thought...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Excellent news. It is about time that Microsoft realizes that the world does not revolve them. Great move Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Angry Anonymous

What will happened to those who spent the time and the money to upgrade to 2000. they decided to upgrade not because they need it, not because their job requirements need it, but only to satisfy MS requirements and now MS changed its mind!!!!!!!. This is very bad. How can we trust MS anymore. Why they don't make up their mind. Upgrade or no upgrade!!!. Every decision will be opposed by some one. If MS will keep keep changing it opinion, every time some one oppose it, then we are in trouble. Where is the leading role of MS. Why they don't research the market before making the decision, not after!!!!!!
I wish I have choosen another field other than IT, so I'll not have to deal with MS

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Well since I stopped the 4.0 cert 2 tests shy, and began 2k (1 test shy), the best option now appears to be to finish both. Meaning 3 more test to pass instead of one.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Good news. There are still millions of customers out there using NT4.0 who are not planning to migrate soon. Besides, it puts a damper on Engineers ever wanting to get another Microsoft certification, hence the very few Win2K MCSEs. Therefore it's NOT that Microsoft loves its customers or 4.0 MCSEs - it's simply acting in its best interest.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Paul Canada

Hey anonymous!! Nice to see that you think everybody had the time and money to take the "year to upgrade"
Welcome to the industry hope your crash course in Win2k pays off.....

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dennis San Francisco Bay Area

I realize that many W2K MCSE's are unhappy, but what MS did made sense. They wanted us to upgrade our certifications to keep up with the technology and they gave us plenty of time, but it wasn't working. Only 1/8 of MCSE's upgraded. They had to either extend the 12/31 deadline or keep the NT 4 track alive.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Everyone keeps confusing companies using NT4 and if their staff "had" to upgrade. The upgrade was not aimed at them but at individuals who wanted to support new technologies

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 John Kentucky

Excellent news! Since Win2k came out, I've only had one client switch over to it. Meanwhile, I am still serviceing over a hundred clients running NT 4. Microsoft's original plan of retiring the NT 4 MCSE was like saying the patient is dead, even though everyone else can see him up and walking around.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chris Colorado

Great news! MCSE for NT4 is still quite viable and it's nice to hear that Microsoft is listening to the people out there pushing and supporting their products - specifically all the MCSE's who certified under the NT4 track.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 1029801 Columbia, SC

All I can say is "ABOUT TIME" Microsoft got off its high horse and looked at something rationally. I will now think about reconsidering 2000 track.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 faye dc

Excellent news. I thought I will be extinct. Now I can prepare upgrade to Win2 on my own time.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 anonymous anonymous

I'm very pleased. I just earned my NT4.0 MCSE in July of 2001 (two electives from the Win2K exams) and was wondering whether it had been a waste of time and effort. Now I feel my work wasn't wasted and I'm more motivated to pursue the Win2K MCSE!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Orlando

So does that mean that Microsoft will now compensate me for the time and money I have spent getting my Win2k cert?!!! Unreal! I hope they are listening.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Thank you Microsoft for immediately discrediting your WIN2K MCSEs. Nice to see that the MCSE certification will always remain a "paper certification". The fact that there are only 47,000 people who have upgraded is evidence that the number of NT4 MCSEs is padded with unknowledgable people.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Steven Collins Russellville KY

Great news! Its actually a certification now rather than a tool to push employers to upgrade.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 mrpier.com Bothell, WA

Excellent.... just as a bachelor's degree doesn't just up and vanish now neither does our hard earned certification. Also...for those who are lucky enough to have BOTH certifications it is even better news, as they will receive double the recognition.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Singapore

Whew! That's a relieved. I am now cramping for my CCNA and the thought of not to upgrade my MCSE NT4 to Win2k has just turn a twist. I have now a lot of time to get my WIN2K certification done. At least I am still in buisness with my current certification.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Michael Roesler Wooster, Ohio

This is great news for MCSE techs!! What about MCP certification on WinNT4 Workstation? Is this certification still planned to be retired by 12/31/01?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jimmy A. Memphis, TN

I think this was a great move. With everything going on with the economy and the War on terror this made PERFECT sense.
MS had kind-of angered NT4.0 MCSEs with this forcing into re-certification plan. Everyone smelled a RAT. Plus not many corporations are implementing Win2K and Active Directory intially because of the viruse issues that might arise. And there is the OS releases that are stepping onto each other Win2K, XP, .NET, etc...

(((( SMART MOVE MICROSOFT ))))

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think this is abetrayal to those who obtained the NT 4.0 cert package and changed over in mid stream because the MCSE authority said it would not be valid. Some of us actually work in the environment to obtain the experience to obtain these certifications, and keep them current. My understanding was that Microsoft was trying to give legitimate status to the MCSE title by forcing skill levels to remain current.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

To that Darren from Brimingham.

I wonder why people from brimingham are always stupid (Sorry, but there's no alternative).

If you wanna know how microsoft's upgrading darn!. affects MCSE's. You gotta be one first.

Not just sit there and pop your comment in the middle of people who think (IT)....!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rick Adelaide

Osama Bill Gaten does it again. Terrorise the worlds MCSE's everywhere.
You have got MCSE's in a rut now Billy boy.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Singapore

Whew! That's a relieved. I am now cramping for my CCNA and the thought of not to upgrade my MCSE NT4 to Win2k has just turn a twist. I have now a lot of time to get my WIN2K certification done. At least I am still in buisness with my current certification.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Listening to their customers? Ya, right. They only have 40,000 certs so far when there were 300-400 thousand 4.0 certs. They know it and they don't want to lose the marketing aspect of "All these people certified". Believe it, when it comes to Microsoft they're not interested in you or your career just their bottom LINE.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think its a good move. This lets my employer know what I am certified in so they can decide if my skills meet thier needs. If it turns out that all prospective employers are looking for W2k and I have NT4, I guess I better get a move on.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Ouch!
My sacrifice to get W2K MCSE this year was wasted. I could have kept my MCT intact AND kept working. What about the MCT's who have not passed the W2K exams and are teaching the W2K courses? Now MS needs to reexamine the MCT program AGAIN! This is terrible news for those of us who responded to the call and good news for all you SLACKERS!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 James Flavin PA

The 47,000 of us that bothered to complete the MCSE upgrade were duped. Our certification will be almost instantly useless as MCSE .NET hits in a day or two.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

MCSE for NT was a JOKE!
The w2k Cert will eleminate many of the previous MCSE's that can not cut it in the real IT world.
Get the w2k cert, or dont start looking for new employment

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 John PA

Great News!!! It is about time Microsoft did something good for all the people that invested alot of money becoming MSCE for NT 4.0

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 David Oklahoma City, OK

Think of all the companies that sent employees for training, paid the $10,000.00 for MSCE camp, only to find that it was going to be all for nothing. These companies (most of them) became resistant to the idea of spending more money on training the employees and thus a valuable benefit was in jeapordy. Thank goodness Microsoft came to their senses. I personally had become so disgusted that I had no intention of obtaining my Win2k MCSE because why should I? How long after I achieved that would they discontinue Win2k MSCE in favor of the XP MCSE??? Now it's all changed.. thankfully.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Don Atlanta

Ok, making progress, so extend the deadline for the Accelerated Exam til May 2001 just as you did for the MCT's.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 bob gloucester,england

First class news, as not all of us can afford the study materials and pay for the exams on a limited budget.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Listening to their customers? Ya, right. They only have 40,000 certs so far when there were 300-400 thousand 4.0 certs. They know it and they don't want to lose the marketing aspect of "All these people certified". Believe it, when it comes to Microsoft they're not interested in you or your career just their bottom LINE.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

There were just under 400,000 MCSEs as of August 2nd. By these numbers, about 1/8th of those MCSEs were on the Windows 2000 track.

Speaking as someone who heeded Microsoft's warnings and worked hard to upgrade my MCSE to Windows 2000 just a couple of weeks ago, I'm mad as hell. The whole point was supposed to be to keep it relevant -- the NT 4.0 MCSE ISN'T relevant anymore -- there are way too many paper MCSEs out there. Microsoft's pulling back from this because they SUCCEEDED in making the Windows 2000 MCSE much harder to get -- that's a GOOD thing. Grr...

Microsoft is going to HAVE to create new logos and designations now. I sure as heck want some way to distinguish myself as a Windows 2000 MCSE from a NT 4.0 MCSE. They're going to need to have a "MCSE 2000" designation now. Frankly, it would be a good idea for them to have a "MCSD .NET" designation once the .NET Visual Studio comes out.

The only GOOD thing about this is that I'll be able to continue using my MCSE+I designation -- which was previously the only good way to clearly differentiate myself at a glance from the hoards of paper MCSEs.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 code1980 Indiana

Do you think everyone should be a certified bigot once a new OS is out there?

Keep in mind that when a company uses OS systems that help generate cash flow, it doesn't mean that companies jump on the new OS merry-go-round.

I am so sick of the certification crap and security problems with mICROSOFT OS's that I have considered using FreeBSD UNIX.

I nolonger care about certifications. I started in this computer industry back in the early 80's. The technical Spirit of operating system has near been lost compared to those true geek days to a battle-front show and tell, I am na na na na na certified bigot, and your not world. Who cares. It's sad that most of the hiring officials in this country cheat out many qualified people. Those with many years of applied engineering experience, and assisted in formation of the very technology we use today to bunch of certified boot camp bigots.

Remember it's all marketing, and if you need a peice of paper to prove your worth to the world then what is it really worth... Lets stop being idol worshipers.

Let contribute collaboratively, the world needs this attitude right now don't you think, lets quit the seperation of designation crap, for those who are certified or not certified. So what! A certified professional, doesn't get paid much more these days anyway.

A ounce proud mcse, and user of MS products.

Necessity Rules doesn't it?

code1980

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Heartbreaking news for those of us who followed the original policy and busted our butts to finish our MCSE-2K. Now the rest of those MCSE-NT4's who were "too busy" to achieve the MCSE-2K get a reprieve!?! It makes me feel like I wasted my time. Way to punch your loyal/most-professional representatives in the gut, Microsoft!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bootstrop Skokie, Ill

One more broken nose in an amazing series of mal-announcements in this ongoing MCSE drama - which should be about in mid-fumble by my count. The only safe conclusion is that this sorry certification episode LOWERS the value of the MCSE still more, and reinforces and continues to mark Microsoft as technological wonderlinques AND management idiots. Will they EVER get it right??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Vipul Shah Maryland

This news just reinstated my faith in Microsoft. This will motivate me to take more courses in the 2000 track and hopefully I will get my MCSE upgraded.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Him New Jersey

I have been working my butt off to pass these 2000 tests and now Microsoft states that those that have no plans on attempting the 2000 tests are still MCSEs. This is completely unfair. Sure they put some words after MCSE for different types but people with the NT 4 MCSE can still say they are a MCSE. This just discredits the MCSE certification even further.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I have posted comments encouraging people to proceed with the 240 exam. Now I find out that MS is not retiring the NT 4 cert at year end. As someone who has taken and passed the 240, I guess I should be thrilled to be done with the entire upgrade thing, but I must say I am rather steamed. I spent nights, weekends, etc. killing myself with stress to get by the 240, when I could have just tried it, passed or failed, and done the individuals without so much pressure. It just appears that either MS did not have the guts to stick by their statements, or it is an opportunity to make more money off of the NT 4 track since the 2K cert is not taking off as expected. Those of you who have taken 240 and suffered for four hours and clicked the end exam button with your guts in your throat know what I am talking about. If you feel prepared and have your voucher, go for it. But please DO NOT let it get to you. If you miss the score (whatever that is), do not despair. You have plenty of time now to upgrade with the individual exams.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Him New Jersey

I have been working my butt off to pass these 2000 tests and now Microsoft states that those that have no plans on attempting the 2000 tests are still MCSEs. This is completely unfair. Sure they put some words after MCSE for different types but people with the NT 4 MCSE can still say they are a MCSE. This just discredits the MCSE certification even further.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Deena Atlanta, GA

Great News!! However, it doesn't help those of us taking the accelerated exam. The accelerated exam will still expire in December 2001. If our NT 4.0 will not be deactivated, then why not allow us an extension like the MCT's, until May 2002.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Him New Jersey

I have been working my butt off to pass these 2000 tests and now Microsoft states that those that have no plans on attempting the 2000 tests are still MCSEs. This is completely unfair. Sure they put some words after MCSE for different types but people with the NT 4 MCSE can still say they are a MCSE. This just discredits the MCSE certification even further.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dennis San Francisco Bay Area

This is GREAT news for many of us NT 4 MCSE's that have been too busy this year to get certified on W2K! My guess is the MS changed their policy because they'd lose far too many MCSE's and Certified Partners if they stuck to it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Simon Boston

Rebuttal to someone who insists that you must stay at the bleeding edge in the IT field: It is the PEOPLE who are the IT field, not machines. We have the power to decide whether an older technology will stay or not. Many companies (CEOs, CTOs, CIOs) are not ready to give up millions of dollars in investment simply because MS claims that Win2K is "better". IT pros need to look at the broader picture of how the IT field interacts with other areas that affect it, instead of blindly seeking "the latest and the greatest".

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Salim Miami

Yes its good news mcse 4 staying on,I have never agreed to constantly being decertified They can just say MCSE 4.0 and have another exam called as upgrade to window nt2000;
Microsoft is bullying everybody

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bootstrop Skokie, Ill

One more broken nose in an amazing series of mal-announcements that continues to mark Microsoft as technological wonderlinques and management idiots. Will they EVER get it right??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news, but I certainly wish I could have read the future as I was one of the ones that got caught up in the whirlwind of Win2K and dropped the ball after having taken only 2 MCP cert tests (Server & WrkSt). Well, hindsight is always 20/20, right?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mike W Perth Australia

EXCELLENT!. It is great to see a large corporation listening to it's customers/partners. I might even have a look at the 2000/XP track now.
(mcse NT4.0)

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rick Clarke Adelaide, Australia

I busted a gut to obtain my MCSE in 2K so as to keep my MCT qualification. I had to finish by October. I just made it. Microsoft owes me for the extra time I took off work to study and take the exams in such a hurry. I also like the idea that I WAS one of only 47,000 MCSE's world wide. Well now theres a bucket load of MCSE's again. Wake up Microsoft. We make YOU the money. Send some back.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This is excellent news, as the company I work for employ 38,000 world wide , they where thinking of reducing the training Budgets for Microsoft products. Voicing there opinion that there was little point as quick as they get there staff certified the certification runs out, Voicing that Microsoft are devaluing there own products by doing this.

My company said they do not experience the same problems with Novell, Sun or Linux.

This gives some weight to my argument that it worth paying for Training, as the certifications will not expire, just be valid for a specific version.

Excellent News.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Portland, Maine

Common sense and sound judgement prevail! Who'd have thunk it?! Imagine Microsoft finally being responsive to the wants and needs of its MCSEs and its customers/clients. This is a fortuitous departure from Bill Gate's believe that it's a "Microsoft World." Microsoft should not only dictate IT, but also respond and support its certified IT professionals and its customers/clients.

Chad from Honolulu is OTL (out to lunch)! His comments/argument makes no sense and actually makes the case and proves the point that (in his words) "Microsoft is pumping out OSs faster than we can handle." I would also submit that Microsoft is cranking out new OSs faster than most businesses want or need with regard to OS upgrades. Swing and a miss, Chad.

NT 4.0 is going to be around for a while. Get used to it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jill Anonymous

This is great. I have no intention of switching jobs soon and my job has no intentions of upgrading to W2K soon. If I went for the W2K certification now, I would be a paper MCSE W2K. Thanks for letting me stay a real MCSE NT4

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 mother everywhere

I financed the cert.of 1 of my boys. Was it a bad investment? We got a dilemma with our 2nd son. How long will his eventual cert. last. hahahahah

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chris Texas, USA

Retirement of the NT4 Paper MCSE's was the only thing that was going to make the effort I put into my 2000 MCSE worth it. Now I stand here with letters on my resume that mean even less than they did yesterday. I assure you that when I'm hiring people I will overlook NT4 MCSE's in favor of Windows 2000 MCSE's because it shows effort, desire, and the ability to learn quickly.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jay East Brunswick

Good News. About time MS wakes up. Novell didn't retire Netware Cne 3 track until this December after all of these years. Why, many customers were still using it. Also, if MS pushes the retirement too soon you'll end up with more paper mcse's.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Damian Anonymous

I now feel motivated and not so resentful in doing further certifications now. I too am an MCSE 4.0, as was a little upset that our certifications were going to be taken away. What MS should do is take away all certifications from PAPER MCSE's!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great! I agree completely with this decision. If you go to college and get a degree in computer science, you are not required to go back and get another degree just because the material has changed, after a few years.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

wonderful news! I'm an MCP in both server and workstation and studying for my 2k mcse. this put less stress on my family and pocket book. I LOVE IT!!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 jeff newport news va

i think this is great! i feel i can now compete in the business world now and not have to worry about being bogus, i can stand up and say i am a MCSE NT4.0. and for all the folks complaining about the news, you are just sour grapes i worked hard for my MCSE and it is not a "paper" certification. i run nt4 server from my home and w2k pro on both my laptop and my slave system so i will soon have both certs!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brian USA

Hey Chad... You, and anyone else who feels that way about this, are a loser!!! You obviously have no life because all you do is study for certifications. For those of us who have a real job and work with it everyday, but don't need a new piece of paper every 2 years to tell us we are good, this is great!!! So I say to you Chad, get a life, get a job and get off your high horse!!! Oh and get a real certification you punk!!! MCSE, MCT, CCIE... end of story!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 TampaJim Tampa, Fl

This is great new for thos of who have been busting our butts to get through re-certification

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 phil ct

Great news. WinNT is here for a long time. Hey you Win2K MCSE's - don't forget to cert. in XP and .net !!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

GREAT NEWS!!! There are about 300,000+ NT MCSE's. Just because Microsoft changes to W2K doesn't mean I lose my knowledge of NT4.0. I love the idea of the differing certification designations. MCSE in NT and MCSE in Windows 2000. PERFECT.
After all. I would rather have time to become an expert than cram for a few tests with intentions of designating myself an expert... I haven't had time to REALLY learn W2K well enough to rightfully say I am an EXPERT in it... remember that's what MCSE means... expert.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mark Gabryjelski Salem, NH

GOOD NEWS - Hey, the product IS still in the market and widely used...nice to know that my and other's certifications will still be recognized.
BAD NEWS - For all those people who worked hard (47,000 and counting) to achieve Win2K MCSE, WHY DID WE HAVE TO STRUGGLE TO THIS EXTENT?
No easy upgrade path, (4 to 7 exams) made a lot of work for those of us who went to certify. WHat kind of special recognition will those of us who made early achiever of Win2K MCSE get? What kind of recognition will those of us certified on WinNT 4 & Win2K get?
CCDA, CCNA, CNE, MCSE (4 & 2000) Sun Certified, ASE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 BRAD NIXON Anonymous

I spent my life savings going training for my nt 4 mcse. I am glad that I will still be able to get some credit for that. I AM 90% done with my 2k cert but I can now spend some quality time learning a very complex operating system! (I wonder how many of the 47,000 2k M.C.S.E s are boot camp babies?) This is great. it looks like I will end up with 2 certs out of this. I deserve it and I feel that to truly upgrade to 2k you had better understand nt4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Steve Dayton OH

The whole retirement paradigm never made sense to me anyway. No OEM will be able to retire a skill set that is still very much in use. The attempt will only made them look bad. Dear Microsoft: Leave the version sorting to me and my employer. You provide the OS & the market will take care of the rest. signed, MCP NT4.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Hurray for the underachievers. They have won! These help desk graduates can now get on with their lives pursuing their online games without the worry of ever having to hit the books. It's a shame Microsoft couldn't have harnessed all that whining.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Thats fine with me i am MCSE in NT 4.0 and MCSE in 2000 big deal ......... still haven't found a job yet.

xavier

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Greg Greensboro

Reprieved !! I am pleased that Microsoft has taken a positive stand in supporting current holders of MCSE/NT4 - This will definately take some of the pressure off to upgrade to Win2k by year's end just to maintain their status with Microsoft .

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Quit your whining.. this is the reason they are retiring the exams!! so we don't have any more Paper MCSEs

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 jim brown Berks,UK

they (MS) keep doing this, they keep teasing us with this carrot, last year they extended the exam retirement and now they are extending this, when is it all going to stop, i sacked NT certification because i wanted to do Win2k track, then i got win2k, should of stuck with NT,
I spend more time sorting driver issues than any thing else, and as for every thing having wizards there a pain in the ass.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anne Anonymous

Great news since NT 4.0 will not be going away for years in the business environment!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 guru KY

Obviously, MS tried to play big brother, forcing their existing MCSE 4.0 to upgrade to the W2K track by the end of this year. What they did backfired! Such action by MS only angered current MCSE who support clients' of MS. Many have complain to MS about the early retirement, but MS did not listen. Now that they see the unfavorable statistics, which could effect their business outcome, they reverse their decision. As a technical person, I understand about keeping current with technology, however, MS was more interested in the $$$ than the current need of the industry. They fail to realize more than 90% (give or take 5%) of their existing customer will still be on the 4.0 platform by the end of this year. Most (especially large organizations) are not ready to take the leap as the transition to AD is a major step. To make matter worse, instead of admitting their mistake, MS covered their A** by stating the fact that they were listening to customers and partners. What are current MCSEs? I guess we are just the insignificant other...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

hello microsoft. upper chase characters are a fine assett to the english language. they make copy much more readable.
please remove the lcase code from the site. thank you.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 brian Ohio

I think that this is BS. This should be a run with the programs or get ran over by them... Brian W2k MCSE NT4 MCSE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 brian Ohio

I think that this is BS. This should be a run with the programs or get ran over by them... Brian W2k MCSE NT4 MCSE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Just seeing if this forum supports the use of upper chase characters. UPPER CASE

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news! MS finally opened its eyes.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dave - MCSE4 Tennessee

Technically speaking, even if MS retired the NT4 track, they cannot still the knowledge required to obtain it from my brain (at least not now). The idea to keep certification udpated through force is perposterous, but somewhat valid. By making the distinction between versions, MS has finally come to a good decision that would appease the skillset verification of both NT4 and W2K professionals.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 JeffB Newark, NJ

This news made my Day!!!!!!!
Microsoft finally thought how ridiculous it was to retire that track. JB

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Teresa Raleigh, NC

I think the news is great! The MCSE NT certification has been my foundation that I plan to build upon. The decertification would not have erased that knowledge.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Apparently not a u-turn, but a repreive - Microsoft said today that the core exams would in fact retire 1st May 2001 instead... The Gates giveth and the Gates taketh away...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

I think they should extend the upgrade exam to win 2000. I you cannot upgrade before end 2001 you need to spend a lot of money again for all the exams. MS should seriously consider this. People is not coing to bother with this anymore.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Last updates on Microsoft.com is 4/30/01 and 8/27/01.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

While this is a great relief for many, those of us that have busted our butts to certify on Win2k feel like we rushed into this for nothing now. Seems like a bait and switch.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

However, McSweeney emphasized that the company won't offer new credentials for MCSE+I, MCP+I, or MCP+Site Building under Windows 2000 or Windows .NET Server. BOO!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 marty Anonymous

This is more like the Novell approach. I think it makes perfect sense. The standard companys will be looking for now is "MCSE - Windows 2000"

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 James Muncie, IN

I believe it is a move in the right direction. Most of the MCSE's that I work with were so disenchanted with renewing, because XP was right behind it, and figuring it was just a matter of time before the 2000 exams expired. In a world of technicians where we have to know more than a server OS, it's nice to see that I don't have to rush to update my MCSE, when I know more Windows 2000 than some of the people I have seen with the Win2k Cert. Now I have time to learn the basics of Cisco, Citrix, and the countless other things that you have to have at least a partial understanding of to survive.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brad badbrad97@yahoo.com

I think this is what I said should happen about a year ago. MCSE for w2k is useless if you work in an NT environment. I think Microsoft finally realized that EVERYONE was just going to keep on claiming an MCSE expired or not. Microsoft sux. Brad MCSE+I, CNA, CCNA

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Greg Mooe Tn

I think that it is great news. While I am working on 2k cert., most of my customers are still happy with nt4. If I am forced to spend vasts amounts of time and money to only be told that in a year it's worthless, my company won't do the certification process. Our business has and will go on with or without NT certified personal, but it has been an added plus. I thank Microsoft for being more considerate for the (legacy) systems.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Burnt again Anonymous

Did not take my 3rd for the core exams in 4.0 because they were going to be retired, so I am only a MCP. Started on 2000, could have finished the 4.0. Thanks alot, Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Good! There is no need to decertify anyone. The version of MCSE will speak for itself. Just as you might not purchase a five year old product off the shelf, you may not hire a five year old version of an MCSE. But it should be your choice! No need to suffer the bad PR and hard feelings that a formal "decertificatoin" brings. -Frank

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 retirement Anonymous

I figured if Microsoft can retire the exams then I can retire the title. Not delete the certification just retire it, i.e. MCSE+I(retired). This is done through many other titles especially in the military. I believe it is technicaly and legally still accurate.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Margaret Georgia

Companies can't jump as far as Microsoft can produce OS's. We as MCSE can't totally give up quality of our life to spend what we earn and personal time to keep certifying continously without enjoying the rewards of what we already have accomplished. Give us our moment of glory.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Frank New York

what cr4p! yes, that's right, i'm one of the 47,000 and it looks to me that MS just let 47k of us down. we certified in this new technology in order to compete/distinguish ourselves from many paper MCSE's. do you think a customer will acutally read anything after the MCSE credential? i think the NT4 stuff should have just been 'end of life' like the OS. yes, many will still have their enterprises running on it, and those who have the NT4 cert will not forget what they've learned - so just have it age like all things in our field. looks to me this is more dollar related than anything else.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Patrick Vick San Antonio

So, if I have taken these four tests, can i still just take two or three more and become an MCSE, or must I take 7 new tests under the Win2k track because I didn't snag all the core NT4 tests before they were retired? (thanks for your help):
098 Implementing and Supporting Microsoft® Windows® 98 Jun 29, 1999
058 Networking Essentials Jul 30, 1999
059 Internetworking with Microsoft® TCP/IP on Microsoft® Windows NT™ 4.0 Sep 30, 2000
067 Implementing and Supporting NT™ Server 4.0 Feb 13, 2001

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Carol Virginia

EXCELLENT NEWS!!! THE GODS HAVE SPOKEN!!! It sounds too good to be true!!! Let's hope it IS true!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Kevin Corcoran Buffalo, NY

Who gives a crap if Microsoft "de-certifies." You can still include MCSE or MCP or MCSE+I "NT4.0" on your resume. Personally my certs. are in NT3.51. Thats how it appears on my resume. Not only does it show I was certified, it also shows I've been around fro a while. In in the final analysis which counts more. It is good that those in the process of NT4 cert. can still finish. After all, NT4 will be around for years.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Ravindra Jayatilake Sri Lanka

This is an excellent news.Who ever says that this is not a good thing to do please think twise.We all know still NT4 is widely dominated in the market all over the world.As Microsoft says People should decide the validity of the certification.Also those people who think their new certification have to be more valueble than the NT4 certification all I have to say is don't worry Its a matter of time.If they wont upgrade their skills they will pay the price in the future.Thank you Microsoft for adding more validity to Our certifications.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Typical microsoft move. They didn't rescind certification not because it's the right thing because: 1. They didn't want a third party offering certifications for 4.0 MCSEs; and 2. They didn't want to lose certification dollars. If only 47,000 have recertified, and the last time I checked there were over 240,000 NT 4.0 MCSE, they would lose lots of money if people went to a third party to remain certified under 4.0. Now wouldn't it be nice if they listened to all of those in the industry who don't want to pay $400 a year to remain an MCT??? This makes me furious, but I'm very happy for the current MCSEs. It was crime trying to remove their title just because Microsoft felt it.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This is the best news. Glad Microsoft woke up.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 creesto tx

Cool now i am MCSE times 2x, but I don't think they should have done that....whatever.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news! Diddo for all whio agree. My organization still uses Nt 4.0 and Novell. The plans are to replace Novell with Windows 2000 in the future, but Nt 4.0 will be around for awhile. Thanks MS!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Osama somewhere in Afghanistan

This is great news, especially for you Americans. I am not so angry anymore. I am ashamed that my hatred of the true great Satan, Microsoft, got completely out of control. I took my rage and frustrations with the great Satan out on innocent Americans and I am deeply ashamed. But certainly one can understand my rage. Do you know how hard it is to attain MCSE from a cave in Afghanistan? With a makeshift shortwave radio internet connection? In the dark? And then, after all of that hard work I find out that it has been wasted. It drove me to kill, I tell youl. And kill I did, and for that I am sorry. Perhaps now, God willing, I can get a real job. Does anyone know of a really good website where I can post my resume?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Definitely good news. At last Microsoft seems to have realized that they can't bully the customers into buying newer operating systems without proving that they are good enough to upgrade.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dave Maryland

I think MS is facing reality. Many MCSEs I know have vowed to seek other company's certification. These incessant certification upgrades are not only expensive, they are getting obnoxious.
I became MCSE certified 2 years ago, and I am doing a Masters in IT right now. And, for me, I will continue to learn the new technologies, but I may never take a certification exams again. Enough of these cyclical movements.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Thats good news.... I never intended to do W2K anyways... Just the working knowledge with hands-on experience on W2K for me is enough. Certifying in W2K essentially would not mean that I don't know my networking. huh !

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Peter Netherlands

I think a differentation is good news. After all, you didn't get your certifications for free. You don't loose your title you earned at college when they change the curriculum?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rich Travis Ky

Thank God. I had actually considered upgrading when I heard that the MCSE for XP was going to be the same as for 2000...prior to that I was just going to go back to UNIX, screw MS. but this puts a whole new spin on things; even though I use win2k in my own shop, I would prefer to do contract work with NT4, W2k is just too flakey to troubleshoot. Since My cert is going to last a while, I can hold of on upgrading.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

How about if u have passed 3 core in NT 4.0 and have passed 2 electives in Win2k, do i have to do the upgrade exam 240?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Williams DOD

I feel that you should not loose what you have but MCSE 2000 would only be a additive to your credentials. Should not be that take your little house away because you have not saved enough for a large one. The industry is so complex now that it is hard to be Jack of all trades in the Microsoft product line.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Williams DOD

I feel that you should not loose what you have but MCSE 2000 would only be a additive to your credentials. Should not be that take your little house away because you have not saved enough for a large one. The industry is so complex now that it is hard to be Jack of all trades in the Microsoft product line.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Gary Cape Town, South Africa

...This after most NT4 MCSEs have gone out and purchased loads of study material.
Why bother upgrading? XP is around the corner: what happens then to W2000-certified MCSEs?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Christine Tampa, Florida

I am amazed at all the clamor about the good vs bad decision that has been made. Aren't we getting these certifications for ourselves, not Microsoft. Microsoft does not provide the jobs I am looking for with this certification. So, if you want a job with a company who has NT systems it is good to have an NT certification. If the money is better with a company who want a Win2k MCSE, then get certified to get the job. Those of you who are complaining that you went to a lot of trouble to get certified and this decision ruins it are not in touch with why you want certification. It is to get the best job you can for the most money you can in a field that you love. Stay focused on that. I have neither certification and my company has been a Microsoft partner since 1995 and I have personally been a Microsoft Consultant since 1988 when they first started on this road of certifying expertise. So in the long run, it is what you know and who you get to employ you based on your expertise that counts, not Microsoft's blessing.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Marc Bradley Thailand

My company would rather than I become an expert in XML, JAVA or Cisco. I've used Win2k from the day it was released and, while I don't have the cert, have the knowledge. NT 4 and NT 5 (Win2k) are closely linked... as is NT 5 (Win2k) and WinXP.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Matt Chicago

I should have known this was a stunt from Microsoft to push us to upgrade our certs to 2K. It worked on me. I got my MCSE 2K in April. Microsoft obviously is just scared to death because all those Partners whose 2 token MCSEs have not upgraded would no longer be Partners. Oh well, when I got my MCSE 4.0 there were only 14,000, so now I'm back on top. Thanks Bill!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Brian PA, USA

Thank God. I simply do not get the type of "Real " Experience in a Win2k environment to pass the exams. I took 219 Designing DS in Win2k and the material had nothing to do with what I do at work. I still will upgrade but now I dont have to choose between that and other more inprotant training or my present position!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

It's really bad thing to get certified in the ever shifting sands of Microsoft. U'll never know what will happen next.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Dominic Zuerich

Well I think this will devalue the MCSE title, as there are going to be various titles as MCSE on NT 4, MSCE on W2k, MCSE on XP ??????
Doesn't this imply to a potention employer that your're only experienced on one particular OS ?
MSCE was much clearer and said that you were experienced in the current Microsoft enterprise OS.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Will Harrisburg, PA

I think that this is great news. The marketplace will ultimately decide the value of techs holding the NT4.0 or Windows 2000 certifications and reward them appropriately.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chris Silk Southend. UK

This news is very welcome indeed. I only passed my MCSE NT4.0 last year and to be honest with a young family would not have had the time to update to the Win2k track- despite getting as far as purchasing the books and applying for the accelerated exam voucher. As my job involves general management functions as much as IT I had initially taken the MCSE more for it's qualification (and practical) value than for its certification. Microsoft have made the right decision in my book- universities do not declassify diplomas and degrees when the courses are abandoned. By taking this step Microsoft has restored faith in it's certification program.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 M Naeem Birmingham UK

Very good news because I didn't even have my first job relating to MCSE and it was retiring. At least I can relax now and concentrate on NT career.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

This is exactly what they should do: certify you on the product(s) you're tested on! This is what customers are doing now anyway. If you're an MCSE, you'll be asked if on 2000 or NT. But as far as retiring the track, nothing is changing. You still have until the end of December to take your catch-up exam and then 4 others to becme certified on 2000.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fraser London, England

I disagree entirely. Bigger, more complex OS = more to learn. Have you even looked at Win2K??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Kleinzee, South Africa

The right decision. The company where I work has not upgraded to Win2k, which would mean that I could well have been "unqualified" next year to do a job that I would still be doing. The company would then not seek MCSE's making the certification worthless.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

doesn't seem to matter what microsoft does there's always someone over eager to bitch about it.
This is a good decision. MS is constantly simplifying it's OSes too be user friendly and easy too administer. If you've proved your worth on NT4 then W2K and XP are not that difficult to come to grips with. Your troubleshooting skills and abiltity to find workable solutions should be well developed administering an NT4 environment. I'd sooner see an NT4 MCSE trying to run a W2k network than the other way round.
Your going to see more "paper MCSE's" under W2K and XP than NT4!!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Simon Sussex, England

Great News and it's my birthday today! Upgrading to MCSE W2K required the same effort as starting again, therefore I had decided not to bother. Agreed you need to keep your skills upto date, but in the real world there is always a mix of old and new.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fraser London, England

Chris, Irrespective of your feelings for why MS wanted to retire the NT4 cert, the numbers speak for themselves - MS have made it tougher for people to "cheat" the 2k exams. Whilst I don't suppose for a second it will eliminate "paper MCSEs" it will certainly reduce them in number.

The anonymous comment about MCSEs that haven't a clue is very valid (in my experience) and reflects very poorly on the rest of us. I agree with you that gaining experience is going to be hard on Win2k, but people have to make the effort - construct your own Win2k lab if necessary. If gaining certs was easy, everybody would have one.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Vijay Krishnan Dar es Salaam, Tanzania

Does this mean that people who are not MS certified can still give NT4.0 MCP Exams and become MCSE in NT4.0 track? Could somebody update me on this?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Is it because of 9 11 attack and economy crisis? NT4 Certs should have been able to maintain longer than it's original plan. Hope for the W2K certs too. One should deserve the ecstasy of being certified long enough in the career.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Oh, this is bad. i was so hoping that the mcse cert would be worth something again. MS is just a cavalcade of gaping suck these days, huh?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Got to say i think its good. I hold both the NT 4 and W2k MSCE and as far as I'm concerned it can only strengthen your cv. Like it or not theres lots of companies that havent moved to W2K (and though personnaly I'd prefer everyone on W2K) the fact remains that they still require NT 4 skills and a benchmark for them and this acknowledges that. Does this mean microsoft is listening for once??!!??

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 chris sydney

Grow up Matthias - the decert process was to get fresh (proxy) Win2K salesmen on the industry floor, not to fulfil any wild ambitions to revalue the NT4 certification. I agree there are thousands of paper NT4 MCSEs - it annoys me too. Do you honestly believe there'll be no Win2K paper MCSEs? - given the amount of Win2K around (in comparison to NT4), where are they going to get that valuable hands on experience? Boot camps? Huh!!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Microsoft: Letting a soft certification get softer. I would have liked to have seen them decertify all of the paper MCSEs that have dragged down the worth of the certification. I've worked with no less than ten certified MCSEs that couldn't tell their HAL from their SID... and that reflects poorly on those of us who try to be truly professional. MS could have used this as an excellent opportunity to clean house and make themselves look better; instead, they're reinforcing the wishy-washy anything for a dollar mentality that fuels the anti-Redmond coalition. What a weak decision. RHCE, here I come!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Greg Neilson Sydney, Australia

I can't believe how gutless Microsoft have become in taking this decision. The best thing about the original Win2K MCSE upgrade plans is that it would flush out many of those who shouldn't have had an MCSE title, making the certification more valuable for those that chose to retain it. It also means we can never believe anything MS tells us about their certification programs since if the majority don't like it, they'll change their mind. How about some leadership for a change?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Terry G Davis London

A sensible decison

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Wayne Colorado Springs

What does this mean for those who have only taken the one test (Windows NT Workstation) to become MCP's? Will our certification still be valid or retired?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Matthias Anonymous

very bad news. all the paper MCSEs get rewarded for doing nothing. the decetification process was meant to get rid of them

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 DD UK

Bit of a U-turn for Microsoft, but the right one nonetheless.
A couple of poor comments from "2K MCSE'S there - wake up and smell reality, just like businesses have been doing

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bob Curtis Los Angles

This should renew interest in the NT Certified Industry Professional (NTCIP) certification for Windows NT 4.0 offered at www.lanop.com. With so many companies still using NT 4.0, newcomers to the field can demonstrate their NT 4.0 knowledge with this certification, which in a strange way, is now indirectly acknowledged by Microsoft as valuable!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Fraser London, England

It's a shame MS has done this in a way, I think purely (whatever they say) because there are 400,000 plus MCSEs now and only 47,000 2k MCSEs.

I am relieved as I am only half way through the upgrade, but I hate to think of all those "paper MCSEs" on NT4 retaining their certs even though they couldn't braindump their way through the new track. That's why there are so many NT MCSEs and so few 2k MCSEs boys and girls...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Antonis CY

XP ??? Did MS action in this way because of the many OS being released in a short time ???

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Jez Cambridge, GB

Great News!!!!
I can't be the only MCSE NT4 who is solely supporting all IT for 120 people and doesn't have the luxury of lots of free time to upgrade by Christmas.
I will be upgrading but as time allows.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 John South Africa

I think it is good. A lot of companies do not want to change over to 2000 and is staying on NT4 for a few more years. The MCSE's in those companies do not need to do the 2000 track. but they still do the work. It will be unfair towards them and the company if their IT Pro's were without any Qualifications just because it was 'old technology qualifications'. They still do their job on the same platforms. I say 'Well Done, Microsoft." We now A lot of people send a lot of time and money to get certified and now they will still be able to say in a few years time that: "This is what I've achieved".

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 chris sydney

So MS finally hit the required % of 'upgraders'! Now perhaps we can get back on track and support what's out there - not what's in the MS warehouses.

About bloody time.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Rolland London, England

Excellent news. De-certification was not a pleasant prospect and caused a degree of resentment. Being dual certified will demonstrate greater expertise and will make for greater marketability.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Moko London

Best news from Microsoft. Now I will consider taking my Windows 2000 certification track.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous England

Got to see Microsoft have come to their senses. How can you force W2k certification if comapnies are still remaining with NT4 platforms.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Bob Murrieta, CA.

Gosh, I guess that someone at Microsoft finally got their head screwed on right and figured that the cash cow idea was wearing thin throughout the IT industry. I am an MCT and personally know that a huge number of global companies have sizable investments as far as time and money in employee tutition so that their employees could receive formal training and certification testing in order to obtain their MCSE certification on NT 4.0. in order to provide a common yardstick of measurement for hiring IT personnel who would maintain their company servers using NT 4.0 BackOffice. Most companies are not yet enticed into following the piper and placing more time and additional resources into Win2K or XP just yet..... because more companies than Microsoft is willing to admit still have the following attitude:
1. If it ain't broke don't fix it !!
2. We're waiting for the Jury to return a verdict - We're not buying the Total Cost of Ownership story..... Let the big boys pay the tab for now. We'll just hide and watch for now...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 K. Krishna Murthi Oman

Over the last 4 months I struggled with a full time job and preparing for upgradomg to MCSE 2000 exams. I am now through 5 of the 7 exams. I am sourly disappointed to learn that I need not have bothered and my MSCE NT 4.0 is still valid. Will Microsoft somehow make for the time and effort put in by people like me

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Really really good news. Great decision Microsoft. Not only does it mean I get to keep my MCSE status it shows my expertise in an OS (NT4) forever. Even if it isn't being used anymore it stills shows skills.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Colin Ireland

Microsoft will probably move the goal-posts again somewhere down the line.
But------for now this is good news.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Janak South Africa

Thanks, very good news for windows nt 4.0 mcse professionals like me.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Good news!!!As the markets doesn't have many WIN2k installed.Of course we need to upgrade but we also have to face the market demand in NT4.0.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Good news!!!As the markets doesn't have many WIN2k installed.Of course we need to upgrade but we also have to face the market demand.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Good news!!!As the markets doesn't have many WIN2k installed.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Martin UK Swindon

I think this is very good news for all those that worked very hard to Qualify for an MCSE in NT4, off their own back and in their own time. Not everyone went to Braindumps! Some wanted to know the subjects. Pity they didn't decide earlier, and save the stress and disappointment. I just wish they would extend the time for the Accelerated Exam, not all of us have the time to spend at the weekends and evenings to cram for this deadline.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Gladwel South Africa

This is great news. I like the idea of big companies going back to basics. "CUSTOMER IS KING". In this case, Microsoft has realized that we, users of their products and guys that are not in direct employment with them but help in the field (MSCE's), need more time to adjust and not be commanded by their speed as far as release of their new products is concerned. Bravo Bill Gates, Bravo Microsoft.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 George Anonymous

Not good idea already too many paper MCSE's this plane was good to clearn them from the market!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Sébastien TOUVOLI COTE D'IVOIRE

Excellent is this news. From Africa it is a really tremendous job to upgrade. Thanks a lot I feel like free now.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Thank you Bill! Now I feel like I did not waste approximately $7,000 obtaining my MCSE. Most of the Financial & Banking Companies I know have not switched, and have no present plan for switching to Windows 2000.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mark Hill UK

Cant help but think Microsoft had this planned all along in a desperate bid to push w2k certification. Nothing Microsoft do suprises me anymore!

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Robert King Scotland

great news, we run an nt 4.0 network and have no plans to upgrade for at least the next two years. this means i have had little exposure to w2k so it would be a waste of time trying to upgrade my certs before december, i'm sure there will be many people out there in a similar situation, with years of experience in nt and certification proving their expertise. thank you microsoft, common sense prevails.

Robert

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Alan Sydney, Australia

This policy is good since there is a destinction being made between the two tracks (NT4 and W2K). BUT this is a PR exercise - employers will STILL ask for W2K certification. By the way there are nearly 400,000 NT4 MCSEs.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Kevin Harrogate

Great News! Microsoft listening!!!
I think MS were trying to force the pace of change to Win2K too quickly. The NT 4 MCSE will be a useful qualification for some time to come and should be recognised. I still intend to pursue 2K MCSE but am pleased that I can now do it at my own pace...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 ray london

This decision will let the market retire the exam in its own time. Now we have
MCSE NT4 *and* MCSE W2K and people can judge themselves how relevant it is to their situation.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Wow, I just busted my butt and spent all of my free time for two months to pass out of the w2k upgrade because of pending decertification, and now ms says it's no big hurry. Typical. I wonder if this means that the MCSE+I certification will be valid again?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Mario Anonymous

What! I have just finish my MCSE upgrade to w2k... I have work hard to pass this 7 exams and now Microsoft say's no hurry, the NT4 mcse are still there after this year....Why the first puss us to take a W2k mcse track and then say that my (old) nt4 mcse is still counting... yes I'am on of the 47000 w2k mcse and a NT4 mcse but why the say this just 2 months before this year ends...

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

All in all, this is a great decision. I'm thankful that wisdom has prevailed. Retiring a certification can't take away the accomplishment. Microsoft has probably improved customer loyalty with this action by unalienating those with older certifications. Additionally, it's good news for those of us that are Win2k certified because it eliminates the urgency for paper NT4 MCSE's to surge to the ranks of Win2k certification, which will in turn add more to the distinction of an "MCSE in Windows 2000".

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

hmmm....it seems those who have their w2k cert. are against this decision and those who are not yet w2k cert. find it a good decision...no surprise there! I have one more exam to pass for my w2k, but I'm glad I won't lose my NT cert. that I worked so hard to get. I'm glad that I will have both certs. to show that I am proficient in both OS'S. NT won't go away for a long time yet and I feel this will be an advantage for me over those who are w2k only.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Hardik Desai

Sir,
This is the good decision that microsoft has taken and will prove beneficial for the professional who are working under the NT architecture. But the NT professional should be evaluated again on NT in order that they stay in touch with the emerging technologies

Thank you

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Nondi Anonymous

Good News!!
Win NT4.0 is still very useful to a lot of companies.Retirement of the NT4.0 certification would not have done good to experts who worked hard to achieve them.To smart people this will not decelerate them in doing 2k exams

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Darren Birmingham, England

How and/or does this effect the upgrade process set by Microsoft to upgrade ones MCSE???

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Interesting Anonymous

Article states 47,000 2K MCSE's. How many NT 4.0 MCSE's are there?

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very good news, i only got my NT4 Cert last year and wanted it to last more than 12months although i have still booked my upgrade exam to Win2K.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Chad Honolulu

Technology is constantly changing. If you choose to be in this industry and carry the Microsoft Title of MCSE, you need to stay fresh, keep up with change, and deal with the fact that Microsoft is pumping out OS's faster than we can handle. Bottom line is if you don't like it, don't get certified. Chad MCSE (2K)

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

"NO RETIREMENT". Doesn't Microsoft know that This type of breaking news could stop the heart of all those "God Forsaken" people, who had no propensity ever to look at a MS Certification Again.

Microsoft's retierment of these exams could have been technicaly correct, but socially or moraly, "INCORRECT!!!".

Image, Bill gates, running for the MCSE certification, and failing on four. then passing them again. And finally getting his small MCSE Certification with all that effort. And then.... The Holy Software Saint comes up to him and tells him "No use of that paper bitwixt thy fingers." So start all over and put you focus on the 2k paper.

I think bill gates would develop (on that spot) a virus that would Kill all Software Saints in this world.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Great news - the market does not automatically upgrade to W2K - just because it is there. NT4 skills are still appreciated and needed, and hence the certification for them.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Very good. Retirement of an exam is stealing ones resume.

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

excellent news - many companies are not moving to w2k yet - nt 4 certification is still very relevent and will remain so for some time to come

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

dont think this is good news ... changing the policy just because there aren't too w2k mcse's is not much of help ... after all everyone had more than one year of time to upgrade its certifikation

Thu, Oct 11, 2001 Anonymous Anonymous

Why can't I find anything at Microsoft.com about this issue ?

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